Ai

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Gopsje

Gold Supporter
What happened to Focus Team? Does that still exist to test the game's patches?
Nothing happened to the Focus Group. And they/we are still testing games patches. That does not mean however that things get out bugfree nor fully tweaked. We only note what needs to be fixed , tweaked or removed. If SV actually has the time or resources to comply to that before things get rolled out..... thats a different thing. Plus some things only happen on highly stressed servers/clients and are working fine on test.

They read and know this stuff and are working on it to some degree. But these threads defenitly help to put things up higher on the agenda. Though that doesn't mean I'm advocating for everyone to make new threads on their highest priority issues....
 

Zeeraha

Well-Known Member
Besides that decent AI is crucial for PvE, it is also first hand presenter of overall game quality and therefore has great impact of newbie first impression of game quality. When new players experience buggy AI during the first minutes inside MO, impression is made that whole game is crappy and unworthy of further time investment. We know this is not true, and that's why I suggest SV to set AI polishing as top priority (after current critical bugs).

I am afraid of latest few statements from Henrik and Sebastian that next step is magic development. I hope this is not true since current AI state is big MO antipromotor and what SV currently needs is polished looking game w/o bugs and decent AI. Extra development of new content and systems like magic would introduce extra bugs and prolong ready to marketing date and thus delay extra subs.
 

Bernajo

Exalted Member
OK one response to rule them all.

Q: OMG Why AI run away then come back LOL:
A: AI has issues, the "run away then come back" is a bug, the fail fear check, flee but something doesn't clear good enough and they decide to come back.

Q: ZOMG Why u no make troll and add? U had all dem grafix!
A: We do have the troll, it does have all the graphics and animations. But we want it to pick you up. And doing requires code, a fair amount of code. Similar to how some ai now can spawn other ai we need a new type of behavior for these attacks. But this new type of behavior for the troll can currently ONLY be used by the troll while spawning other mobs can be used by a wide amount of other creatures.

Q: I want them molvas back plz ktnxbie.
A: Molvas are awesome! BUT, if we re-add them we want them as mounts, and mounts take some time to add due to the fact that they need to follow the same system as horses. This means that once we add molvas we get a good 5-7 different movlas but it's more complicated then just "re-add" them. They need to have their rigg re-rigged in such a way that it can be used by the dynamic system.

Q: You said AI would do cool stuff, all they do is hit me in the face with a claw!
A: This is more or less just time, the AI can do a lot of cool things with the new system but the mobs we have are mostly furry things with sharp nails. In wow you could have a pig that charges,hits you and you catch fire. This.. is something we want to stay away from. We will be looking into making the mobs that can have more interesting things to do more interesting. Say witches that raise skeletons, elements that put down "tower" type of things etc.

Q: Why you LIE and say you fix it when U did not NOOBSEB!
A: I did! Every note in the patchnotes about changes to the AI is indeed a improvement, it's just been a bunch of fairly minor improvements rather then one giant "this fixed all" type of deal. For the next patch I have for the first time some real time to put into the AI and I should be able to tick of a lot of "minor improvements" that hopefully makes the experience better for you.

Q: But WTF did you do with that time Seb, I heard you just drank whiskey and watched the Sin City movie over and over again.
A: All AI was scrapped and I started from nothing again. These were my main goals:
1.Give the client more time to handle movement to make it look better.
2.Give the designer more variety in what attacks each mob can do.
3.Add patrolling and make every NPC an AI too.
4.Add support for several pets and build a more solid system to control them with.

And all of this did indeed get made, its the polish that still needs to be there, the client part of movement can be made a lot better and after that it can be polished infidelity.
The attacks can be made, but we don't use them to well yet. Patroling NPCs are in, and one of the reasons why we can now have the guards instead of the old insta-wack guards.
Several pets are in and the new control system is better and gives GMs the ability to directly control the ai for events etc.


XOXOX / The seb
Who here asks questions in ZOMG talk? The feedback and questions in this thread alone show the passion and intelligence of your community. It is good to see some word from the dev on this, but maybe alil less condescending next time. Especially when your wall of text consisted of:

Q: Why no troll,better ai, mounts or pet system, etc?
A:"It takes time or coding(work) to do this."

I just summed up the whole wall of text. I mean no shit it takes time or coding, I doubt anyone here doesn't know that. sorry for the rant and thank you to each and everyone of you who gathered data and submitted feedback.
 

aramsm

Junior Member
Im waiting ansciously for some fixes on AI/PvE.
 

Sebastian Persson

Developer
Staff member
Who here asks questions in ZOMG talk? The feedback and questions in this thread alone show the passion and intelligence of your community. It is good to see some word from the dev on this, but maybe alil less condescending next time. Especially when your wall of text consisted of:

Q: Why no troll,better ai, mounts or pet system, etc?
A:"It takes time or coding(work) to do this."

I just summed up the whole wall of text. I mean no shit it takes time or coding, I doubt anyone here doesn't know that. sorry for the rant and thank you to each and everyone of you who gathered data and submitted feedback.

When I say it takes time and code, I pretty much mean it's about priorities, spending 3 days to make a troll pick you up when I could have made all AI follow better just doesn't make sense.

Didn't mean to be condescending at all, I do get a couple of "OMG WHY U NO" type of messages in my inbox the vast majority of feedback I get is not at all like that. I just tried to be funny good sir, I apologize if it made you upset.
 

Bernajo

Exalted Member
When I say it takes time and code, I pretty much mean it's about priorities, spending 3 days to make a troll pick you up when I could have made all AI follow better just doesn't make sense.

Didn't mean to be condescending at all, I do get a couple of "OMG WHY U NO" type of messages in my inbox but if the waste majority of feedback I get is not at all like that. I just tried to be funny good sir, I apologize if it made you upset.
Thanks for clearing that up. You are usually one of my favs over at SV. I hope you guys get everything ironed out.
 

Rilman

Senior Member
OK one response to rule them all.

Q: OMG Why AI run away then come back LOL:
A: AI has issues, the "run away then come back" is a bug, the fail fear check, flee but something doesn't clear good enough and they decide to come back.

Q: ZOMG Why u no make troll and add? U had all dem grafix!
A: We do have the troll, it does have all the graphics and animations. But we want it to pick you up. And doing requires code, a fair amount of code. Similar to how some ai now can spawn other ai we need a new type of behavior for these attacks. But this new type of behavior for the troll can currently ONLY be used by the troll while spawning other mobs can be used by a wide amount of other creatures.

Q: I want them molvas back plz ktnxbie.
A: Molvas are awesome! BUT, if we re-add them we want them as mounts, and mounts take some time to add due to the fact that they need to follow the same system as horses. This means that once we add molvas we get a good 5-7 different movlas but it's more complicated then just "re-add" them. They need to have their rigg re-rigged in such a way that it can be used by the dynamic system.

Q: You said AI would do cool stuff, all they do is hit me in the face with a claw!
A: This is more or less just time, the AI can do a lot of cool things with the new system but the mobs we have are mostly furry things with sharp nails. In wow you could have a pig that charges,hits you and you catch fire. This.. is something we want to stay away from. We will be looking into making the mobs that can have more interesting things to do more interesting. Say witches that raise skeletons, elements that put down "tower" type of things etc.

Q: Why you LIE and say you fix it when U did not NOOBSEB!
A: I did! Every note in the patchnotes about changes to the AI is indeed a improvement, it's just been a bunch of fairly minor improvements rather then one giant "this fixed all" type of deal. For the next patch I have for the first time some real time to put into the AI and I should be able to tick of a lot of "minor improvements" that hopefully makes the experience better for you.

Q: But WTF did you do with that time Seb, I heard you just drank whiskey and watched the Sin City movie over and over again.
A: All AI was scrapped and I started from nothing again. These were my main goals:
1.Give the client more time to handle movement to make it look better.
2.Give the designer more variety in what attacks each mob can do.
3.Add patrolling and make every NPC an AI too.
4.Add support for several pets and build a more solid system to control them with.

And all of this did indeed get made, its the polish that still needs to be there, the client part of movement can be made a lot better and after that it can be polished infidelity.
The attacks can be made, but we don't use them to well yet. Patroling NPCs are in, and one of the reasons why we can now have the guards instead of the old insta-wack guards.
Several pets are in and the new control system is better and gives GMs the ability to directly control the ai for events etc.


XOXOX / The seb

I don't like the general attitude of this post at all. Is this how you see your customers Seb? as a bunch illiterate retards, constantly complaining, who can't construct a proper sentence about genuine concerns with your bug ridden game?

I find this not funny at all, considering the state of things and the amount of customers you have left I would have thought you would tread with a bit more respect for your customer concerns, not portray them as leet speaking idiots.
 
seriously let the guy rest ... it was just a joking attitude ...
 
first off a little quote from the recent rewiev: Mob AI, for example, is so wacky sometimes that I ended up too frustrated to try to kill things. It shouldn't be surprising that gaining combat skills by killing mobs is a pretty common activity, but I simply had to put it to the side before I pulled my hair out. Pigs or deer would run off, come back to fight me, or just walk away without ever responding to my hits. Often the mobs would fade into the ground or would disappear, only to appear yards away, bucking and going through combat animations. It was more than frustrating and fell into the "pathetic" category at times. I'd even go so far as to say that half of my time spent in combat was spent attempting to fight a bugged-out mob.


extra quote: Friendly NPC AI was just plain silly. Pretty much every guard or moving NPC I came across would suddenly start to run, then stop and finally turn around to do it all again.

thats a rewiev made after a patch that was supposed to deliver us the: Mortal online's new AI is one that is sure to surprise you, with incredible features never yet seen in an MMORPG

this leaves me with one question, is there some/a bug with the AI that is stopping SV from adding all this new behavior, or did it simply proove to hard to finish on time? Or is it actually there but just really full of bugs, and the last one: why aint there any trolls picking up and eating people? =(


dont take this as a flame or rant, i would just simply like to know seing as its understanderble(spelled?) if it simply prooved to hard or something.
You're from Apr 2009... unless this account has been bought, you should know the answer for your question.

Starvault is good at 3 things, and 3 things alone: Having visions, over promising, and under delivering.
 

Azaraah

Oghmium Supporter
I don't like the general attitude of this post at all. Is this how you see your customers Seb? as a bunch illiterate retards, constantly complaining, who can't construct a proper sentence about genuine concerns of with your bug ridden game?

I find this not funny at all, considering the state of things and the amount of customers you have left I would have thought you would tread with a bit more respect for your customer concerns, not portray them as leet speaking idiots.
Lol, gtfo.
 

Sebastian Persson

Developer
Staff member
And so the thread is de-railing.
Before it goes down into the depths I just want to thank everyone for their input it's been very useful and I have gotten a good chunk of things fixed based of it. You guys are awesome.
 
I don't like the general attitude of this post at all. Is this how you see your customers Seb? as a bunch illiterate retards, constantly complaining, who can't construct a proper sentence about genuine concerns of with your bug ridden game?

I find this not funny at all, considering the state of things and the amount of customers you have left I would have thought you would tread with a bit more respect for your customer concerns, not portray them as leet speaking idiots.
Oh come on, the sad truth is that the when I read the forums, a great percentage of people do indeed sound like "illiterate retards, constantly complaining", more than often enough even with personal insults for the entire developer team. A lot of people here behave as if they are suffering from dissocial personality disorder, only because they are on the internet and think being rude is normal here.

I can fully understand that kind of reply, since it is also a reaction to the impolite complaints of so many. If I got dozens of messages saying "you n00b, you are so stupid and broke the fucking shit again, why have you not fixed the game, it is so easy to do, I know cuz I'm l33t", ...
The devs are also humans, and the fact that they take their time to personally answer questions on the forums does not mean that they deserve less respect, but even more. It is kind of sad that there always have to be [unfriendly beings] that ruin the respectful and constructive atmosphere for all the others.

And by the way, I do find it funny (as far as you can find it funny, anyway) and most of all, very informative. :) If I had to choose between one of Sebastians posts and some "customer friendly politically correct soft and smooth official PR announcement", I know what I would go for. ;)
 
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sunshiner

Well-Known Member
You're from Apr 2009... unless this account has been bought, you should know the answer for your question.

Starvault is good at 3 things, and 3 things alone: Having visions, over promising, and under delivering.
one point your missing, is wether or not they under-delivered and intended for it to stay this way, or if their still aiming to make it like it should have been.

and the "vision" is the only reason i still stick around these forums
 

Rilman

Senior Member
I'm bewildered you find it funny that people are selling a broken product and then talking to you like you are retarded for buying it or commenting on it.
 

ltankhsd

Senior Member
I'm bewildered you find it funny that people are selling a broken product and then talking to you like you are retarded for buying it or commenting on it.
It was meant to me humerous. I'm sorry you don't have enough of a sense of humor to see it and therefore mischaracterize the intent of his comment.
 

Bernajo

Exalted Member
I'm bewildered you find it funny that people are selling a broken product and then talking to you like you are retarded for buying it or commenting on it.
People are sheep Ril, don't waste your time. In any case, thanks again for responding Seb!
 
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