Ancient History

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You are contradicting yourself here...you just said that 3 13/Oasis guys were helping Prom on TA siege (i saw them myself btw...) and in that exact same fight Ascension was involved with considerable numbers!
I was at both seiges against TA though. The first one was 13+Ascension (and Harl I think?). We couldn't destroy the keep because it was bugged.

The second one was Prometheus, and 3 guys from 13 (not Oasis) helped out. Nobody from Ascension or HARL was there.

Why do you keep saying I'm butthurt? I just logged in and did my thing since release, and have always been more about good fights than all this political shit. I'm also not part of any "13 bullshit machine"...I left them and strongly doubt I'll ever return. I'm just an individual trying to keep you guys real, and have a different perspective on the events. I don't really mind if you want to take over the world and whatever, as long as you don't mind when people call bullshit on your excuses, and point out your manipulations. We will see soon enough if your intents were noble or not, as there aren't a lot of people left playing the game to stand against your northern superzerg.

TBH I keep trying to pull out of this thread but you guys keep asking me questions and shit, and someone's gotta call bullshit on you sometimes.
 

Shinzon

Honored Member
this is getting to be quite amusing how everyone has to spin this shit like it matters or did matter at all.

Hypocritical bullshit
And you are an angel of truth. 13 amassed the largest "Coalition of the Chilling" and decided to test it out including the mangaons on anything that they didn't like. During the entire war statements like "Extinction" where thrown out casually towards the enemy guilds, and you are more guilty that anyone of foaming at the mouth.

13 used large numbers, off hours and crappy propaganda to wage their war; while trying to use Oasis as some sort of some screen for what they were trying to do. Implanting spies and agents within TOP to do; god knows what is also an indication of someone just taking a casual stroll down MO.
 
just saying like it is/was, lol, you should know better yourself shinzon, than anyone how to spin shit for your liking . . . .


spy? who did we plant as a spy in TOP? some DR guys that took it upon themselves to think they were helping? Oh, like the dumbass that opened the gate after logging in and not realizing we had 40 people breathing down our necks when you all arrived at Oasis?

Trust me, bizzy and knox had other plans, the average member of 13, like myself, was just playing the damn game. . . . . . .
 

Shinzon

Honored Member
just saying like it is/was, lol, you should know better yourself shinzon, than anyone how to spin shit for your liking . . . .


spy? who did we plant as a spy in TOP? some DR guys that took it upon themselves to think they were helping? Oh, like the dumbass that opened the gate after logging in and not realizing we had 40 people breathing down our necks when you all arrived at Oasis?

Trust me, bizzy and knox had other plans, the average member of 13, like myself, was just playing the damn game. . . . . . .
You aren't saying as it is; you are trying to grab as much of the blanket around yourself as possible until the curtain closes.
 

TheMap

Cronite Supporter
And you are an angel of truth. 13 amassed the largest "Coalition of the Chilling" and decided to test it out including the mangaons on anything that they didn't like. During the entire war statements like "Extinction" where thrown out casually towards the enemy guilds, and you are more guilty that anyone of foaming at the mouth.

13 used large numbers, off hours and crappy propaganda to wage their war; while trying to use Oasis as some sort of some screen for what they were trying to do. Implanting spies and agents within TOP to do; god knows what is also an indication of someone just taking a casual stroll down MO.
Holy shit I want what your smoking....

 

Necromantic

Well-Known Member
It still baffles me that people can't get the easy concept of if you fuck with too many people they will fuck you back. No matter if they are allied or not, you will be the common enemy and they might hence work together to fight you.
You can hate each other to death and still have the discipline to fight against a common enemy together without losing the hatred for each other.

I've never known Prom to be untrustworthy. When have they lied or deceived people? From what I've seen they have been fairly straightforward in their dealings.
Being trustworthy has nothing to do with being straightforward or not.
You can be the most honest and nice person, that still does not make you trustworthy. Trust sometimes means to do something "wrong" to help someone else.
Nidhogg in particular always posts logs from chats without even asking for consent from involved parties. Especially in this case where it was clearly labeled as confidential.
Not that it ever really helped them, I guess it always hurts them more in the end whether they notice it or not.

There are differences Shinzon. I remember you begging Prometheus for an end to the war you declared on us. The only mistake we ever made was granting mercy to a venomous serpent.

As soon as you felt secure in your new alliance you cancelled the peace treaty you had begged for previously. You then rallied the north using fear. After there was nothing left to fear you could count on people eager for blood to continue the fight.

The difference between Prometheus and you is that we will not beg for mercy. How can we? Harlequin, AQ and 13 havent begged for mercy and we do not wish to be outdone by them.

Wessex has backed off and complied with the Northern demands, Prometheus however would rather die on our feet then live on our knees
I remember you begging for forgiveness for your RUS dogs that you could not keep on a leash.
And by the way you are the ones who officially "canceled" the treaty.
If not wishing to be outdone by someone else is the reason for you not "begging for mercy" then you have weird priorities in reasoning.
Bringing Wessex in as the counter part to your bravery of standing up and hence calling them cowards and kneeling is pretty inappropriate seeing how they supported you the whole time even though they had good standings with AI before and risked a lot of things for you.

I can't speak for Shinzon as a person but AI has never begged, AI reasons.
And as wrong as it might sound to you AI has never convinced any party in TA to their beliefs. Neither did AI do this to anyone outside the alliance. that there is no plan to going with it. The enemies pretty much did that by themselves and their actions.
The meeting from the log in question did not have any impact on the politics in AI or TA. Zangler explicitly stated that he does not belief that Bizzy's goal is to destroy the game and in that way actually came to his defense.

The hate of Prom for AI and Co. is astonishing. I seriously have to ask myself if Nidhogg has anything else to do with his life than rant about AI and Shinzon?
Not that it's not amusing to see in many ways, it's just a bit hard to understand this extraordinary level of hatred.
 
You aren't saying as it is; you are trying to grab as much of the blanket around yourself as possible until the curtain closes.

lol, seriously? what do khel and I and Bene have to lose in saying any of this? The truth is 13 is dead not because of some group of people coming to take our keep(s) down. 13 died from internal problems and a lack of support when certain things happened that included someone breaking into a locked chest. Bizzy just up and stopped playing after that as the game was failing in his eyes. Trust me, we were well prepared for what was about to happen, except the game let us down, not some zerg showing up on our doorstep.

See, you need to know when what people are saying is how it was, especially when they have nothing to lose for telling you any of this.

how many times has AI been tossed aside like a ragdoll only to come back and have it happen to them all over again because you spout the most absurd political drivel out of your fingers all over these boards that contradict every statement any one else has ever said?

Gratz on your first victory, but don't take too much credit, again, as I said, 13 fell apart internally, not because of you.
 

Necromantic

Well-Known Member
It's not really AI's first "victory".
And how did Shin's reply have anything to do with how 13 "died". As that's the only thing you really seem to defend. You're really not helping yourself by being overly defensive.

There is no point in discussing who left because of whom or why in my opinion. Everybody does it their own reasons and nobody will ever really know those except for themselves.
 

Shinzon

Honored Member
EvE Online and Ten Ton hammer has tons and tons of articles on this topic. I would list some of the articles on there as "Must Reads".
 
I was at both seiges against TA though. The first one was 13+Ascension (and Harl I think?). We couldn't destroy the keep because it was bugged.

The second one was Prometheus, and 3 guys from 13 (not Oasis) helped out. Nobody from Ascension or HARL was there.

Why do you keep saying I'm butthurt? I just logged in and did my thing since release, and have always been more about good fights than all this political shit. I'm also not part of any "13 bullshit machine"...I left them and strongly doubt I'll ever return. I'm just an individual trying to keep you guys real, and have a different perspective on the events. I don't really mind if you want to take over the world and whatever, as long as you don't mind when people call bullshit on your excuses, and point out your manipulations. We will see soon enough if your intents were noble or not, as there aren't a lot of people left playing the game to stand against your northern superzerg.

TBH I keep trying to pull out of this thread but you guys keep asking me questions and shit, and someone's gotta call bullshit on you sometimes.

That's because your sensible posts are confusing them since it makes sense and children don't have the mind to reply with intelligent posts. Can't reason with stupid. Shows how intelligent people are who try and argue against facts, not opinions.
 

Ninogan

Junior Member
I hope the Epic patch brings enough new people to this game that there are some new reasonable and intelligent diplomats for a change. Reading those logs made me embarrassed for most of you involved.
Sums the log & thread up.
 
Can you see it? The drama? The accusations? The intrigue; hell we even got tinfoil hat type scenarios for you to chase if you wish.
I seriously considered microwaving up some popcorn while I was reading all this.

Anyways, AI isn't what got TOP involved in the northern war. I was basically leading the english segment of TOP while Aphilas was away (the other two active english officers left the game during this time, leaving us hanging a bit) and the only AI guys I ever really spoke to were Morfildor and SliceUp. To be honest, we weren't really doing much diplomacy at all. What got us involved was seeing Ascension/Harl/13(/DGB/OS/DR/etc because when people referenced 13 or OS at this time, these are the guilds they were referring to) helping Prom siege TnA, after Ascension/13/Harl had besieged us.

I remember when TnA came to ask us for help during that (I think it was one of the SS guys who hopped on our vent, either that or Morfildor from AI) and said Prom was attacking, my thoughts were "Prom isn't really our issue. We don't want to piss them off in our current state either, so I won't mount an official defense, although some individuals from TOP will want to help anyways because they like the TnA guys."

Then it was mentioned that 13/Harl/Ascension were there fighting as well, so I mustered every fighter online to come, because as others have said, the entire south allying to take down one northern alliance meant the rest were going to follow. AI didn't do any fear-mongering, your "coalition" did the fear-mongering by its mere existence. So, instead of crying about our super-zerg "alliance" (Clandestined, if you can call 13/Prom association and Coalition and not an Alliance, and then call TOP/TnA/Chaos an alliance with a straight face, you should play poker for a living) maybe you should think about who you form your "coalitions" with in the future.


On another note, are there any two people in this game who hate eachother more than Shinzon and Nidhogg? That's not just an "I hope this bastard leaves the game" hate, that's a real visceral loathing going on right there XD.
 
DGB, OS, and DR were only there to help take myrmopolis. I think only DR was actually involved with that as they had a couple guys with creature control for the donkeys. None of those guilds participated in any other offensive.

Yes, the friendship had begun. That "6 hours later" AQ/Reign show up when TOP shows up with plenty to take out Oasis was not a call to an ally, -13- members on at the time were ready to deal with our own problems first. Asking for help, as I was there on vent, was one of the LAST things we did.

Prom, that was just a mutual defense agreement. Again, asked as a last resort for them to help us. Mind you, only 8 people were anywhere to be found from any of the guilds in Oasis at that time. Prometheus just showed up sooner as they are right around the corner . . . . .

Again, not an alliance, more of a coalition . . . . .

Yeah, I do win at poker when I play . . . Because I only play the cards I am dealt.
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
If you mean that little guy called [Outs]House on IRC, I've asked mods to ban him 4-5 times now for impersonation.
If you mean (verified spelling) [OUT]House, I selfishly thought he was performing an hommage to my "Little Red Brick **** House" speech. Shucky darn. There goes my 30 seconds.

Now, to matters of journalistic integrity. (Relax, Bevo; it's not about you, this time.)

All I really need to know about Nidhogg's motives in posting this is revealed in what is not there. The parts, probably several of them, that he left out deliberately:

For instance, between a point near the end of Part I, where the quote "<[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> [WSX]Malachi_Drake, Your Excellency, are you ready to speak on behalf of Wessex? || <[WSX]Malachi_Drake> Hello all." appears and the point in Part II where I ask "<[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> Please do all of you let Wolfszeit have their turn, as they have not yet.", Nidhogg unhelpfully leaves out the following, where I had something to say--


{quote}[12:02] <[Aegis]Zangler_h> may i have the floor?

[12:02] <@[NIX]NakieoN> WSX has been waiting to say

[12:02] <[Aegis]Zangler_h> of course

[12:02] <@[NIX]NakieoN> i would rather have them say what they want and then we can engage in debate

[12:02] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> If it is short, please, Zangler, as Malachi has already had to leave.

[12:03] <[Aegis]Zangler_h> please continue then Lady Sothenic

[12:03] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> And I am missing what he has left for, which was an appointment from days ago.
[12:03] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> thank you

[12:03] <[WSX]Malachi_Drake> I am here a few more moments.

[12:03] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> We like Valhalla and Forsaken will have to consult with more people than are here, to have an answer thought out and prepared. This is a serious question.
[12:04] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> Unlike Nidhogg, I don't actually believe that no guild wants world domination, though I think that few do.


[12:04] <[GD]princereaper> <--
[12:05] <[GD]princereaper> vote for prince mayor of fab!!

[12:05] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> Until today, I hadn't heard anyone talking about wiping out another guild entirely, aside from 13. I'm not personally in favour of anyone doing that with any guild, even 13.


[12:05] * [Aegis]Sindas pushes Princereaper back to the side of the stage.

[12:05] <[FOR]Phrack_> imo, not forsakens, no guild should have total domination

[12:05] <[WSX]Malachi_Drake> We are all reasonable people here and so I am going to assume that we can speak freely amongst each other without it being taken offensivly.

[12:05] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> Though I do see the danger they represent to the game as we wish to play it.
[12:06] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> They are apparently metagamers who don't care if they break the game by eradicating the community while playing it. That would be lulz for them, I think.


[12:06] <[FOR]Phrack_> the problem i see, is that it could get out of hand before anyone reacts to it, and by then, it might be too late.

[12:06] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> So, something should be done, but more like making them sit back and stand down than removing them entirely.


[12:06] <[WSX]Malachi_Drake> A lot of the parties involved in conflcit with -13- currently are not completly innocent. AI and -13- have history and Myrmidon, who I respect, are far from innocent bystanders.

[12:06] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> And yes, if not soon, it may be too late.

[12:07] <[WSX]Malachi_Drake> I can not speak for TOP as all I know about that incident is from the forum's and I don't care for them.

[12:07] <[FOR]Phrack_> i agree with wsx, in my person oppion at least
[12:07] <[FOR]Phrack_> personal

[12:07] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> Malachi, please add to what I said.
[12:07] <[WSX]Laylah_Sothenic> And then we may have to excuse ourselves, though we will log and read the rest of the discussion later.

[12:08] <[SS]Energyo> I've got an idea of what is going on here. Can't sat I am opposed.
[12:08] <[SS]Energyo> say*

[12:08] <@[NIX]NakieoN> are you opposed to removing 13?

[12:08] <[WSX]Malachi_Drake> Is -13- gunning for world domination are are they poersuing their vendetta's? Wessex has seen no hostile move from -13-; at least no more hostile than WZ, AQ, REIGN etc.

[12:08] <[SS]Energyo> I am not opposed.
[12:08] <[SS]Energyo> I am for it, see unfortunately this game has had a major population decrease. 13 is a major contributor to that.

[12:09] <[FOR]RanKor> Agreed Drake

[12:09] <[SS]Energyo> What I dont want to see is this game to fail because one guild destroyed it.

[12:09] <[GD]princereaper> I do it to shut up bizzy mouth thats just me

[12:09] <[FOR]RanKor> no more, no less
[12:09] <[FOR]Phrack_> agreed

[12:09] <@[NIX]NakieoN> yes but Malachi, 13/Asc has threated WSX with destruction of your keep because one single initiate from Myrm asked why Myrm didnt ally WSX
[12:09] <@[NIX]NakieoN> so i have to assume that WSX is somewhat tempted to support this alliance

[12:10] <[Aegis]Zangler_h> a question please?

[12:10] <@[NIX]NakieoN> you have been waiting to say something
[12:10] <@[NIX]NakieoN> please go ahead

[12:10] <[GD]princereaper> The question is, if we remove 13, what happens after?

[12:10] <[WSX]Malachi_Drake> Reign threatened us if we were to ally with Murmidon; yes. But I am pretty sure almost all factions would disown us at this point if we were to do this.

{/quote}
-- and even that is not all of what's missing. (Note: this is still not a full quote of the text of the meeting. If you want the full log, PM me on these forums or mail your request to NajwaLaylah@gmail.com and let's have some sunlight on this.)

Why not include (among other things) the above? Can it be only because I start off by saying that I do not agree with Nidhogg? Or does it have more to do with leaving out what Malachi said? I don't care to inquire so much as to point out that the quote given is as incomplete as the OP made it, for reasons of his own. As a keeper of minutes, I find this offensive and also unprofessional, unless one's profession is slanting things.

Bolded text applies to the only things I said which I consider to be of any lasting importance, and only because there is seemingly a desire on the part of some to forget and to deny that they were said. For that simple reason, they bear a little repeating:

No guild or coalition should plan on making another extinct. No game played should consist of making a game unplayable. Anyone who suggests these things does not deserve cooperation in doing them.
 

BaurusJA

Senior Member
That was masterfully done Laylah.

I always respect WSX despite our potential political squabbling and or disagreements.

I've playing EvE for a while, no alliance is ever "defeated" by another as such because you can't permanently kill characters. No, it is much more complex than that. It is the phenomenon of the failcascade.

The Goons have a fairly good explanation for it:


Unfortunately that's how you win a fight other than just taking territory. I'm not particularly fond of it, but if that sort of harassment is necessary for our survival I can't say I wouldn't suggest this to Shinzon. The point is you put enough pressure on someone they will fold and in a voluntary activity that is the only way you can actually completely win. Also, you can cause a failcascade unintentionally just by thoroughly defeated an opponent and taking their territory. But I digress, wonderful post Laylah.

Also, I don't think Shinzon hates anyone more than Nidhogg, but Bizzy hates Shinzon more than Nidhogg, but Bizzy also still hates Mr Winter more than anyone in this game.
 
i dont know if you fools notice, but all of us here are ex-13. why would we lie about what 13 did?

None of us hold any allegiance to it whatsoever. The fact that we left should tell you that we didn't like the way things were going. So why would we lie or spin. We have no motive to do so. you have all the motive in the world to try and make yourself look better.

you screamed Hyperion against a clan who can put up 15 players primetime (at its peak mind you... this declined, as did the numbers for everyone else).

You whine how 13/Harl/Asc is a superzerg...yet Both TnA and TOP matched our numbers when we seiged them.

You whine about prom, but that has nothing to do with 13. TnA forced that conflict. it could have easily been avoided if you wanted to avoid it. but zangler/shinzon decided to spin some more words to force prom into a non-pk stance on the whole alliance.

I dont see why Chaos was EVER involved at all.


All your reasoning on this thread seems to repeat "if X fell we would be next, so we decided to help". Yea, thats the definition of forming a superzerg right there. each faction was evenly matched vs 13/ascension, but decided to band together "in case one lost". some of the most pathetic shit ever.


further proof of you being the superzerg is that you still roll around together. you still have TnA/TOP forming massive groups, along with the remnants of myrm.

Who are you banded against now? Ascension who can put up like 10 at most usually?
 
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