Mats's Surviving Posts on Lore

Marcus Aurelius

Silver Supporter
We have initiated a good plan to expand and to add more lore into our game with the help of a writer. Mats will work with this new writer to be sure that the desired lore and information is in proper place.

The start of finally translating lore? Or are we seeing the reigns being passed on?
Thread starter #42


Silver Supporter
Oh, Mats, I meant to ask -- do you have any more stuff like that Sidoian post? If we could get one of those for each of the groups it'd be extremely useful for all of the people trying to create narratives around their characters out there (and there are plenty of us!). And knowing the year on the/different calendar/s of Nave would be awesome too!
Thread starter #44


Silver Supporter
I hear the manure business is quite profitable!
its going to be a booming business when TC hits, cant wait to be a farmer!! and farm my crops all day!! fuck that pvp shit, I can grow some salvia or some seadew, maybe some nahuat, u kno wut Im sayin?


Exalted Member
its going to be a booming business when TC hits, cant wait to be a farmer!! and farm my crops all day!! fuck that pvp shit, I can grow some salvia or some seadew, maybe some nahuat, u kno wut Im sayin?
I'm looking forward to when salt is weaponised.


Well-Known Member
Lol, butchery is quite the thing to be remembered by ;)

I designed all systems in MO up to and including Dawn, excluding the flagging system which I "simply" reverse-engineered and the first magic school (Ecumenical) which was Henrik's. And of course the actual movement- and combat action design is Sebastian's. Henrik was always the guy with the vision for the game and decided which systems we needed, what to prioritize and in which order to do them. Me, Sebastian and Henrik usually brainstormed ideas for these together, and then I worked out the mechanics and designed them.

If I am to take credit for systems where I did both design and whole concepts/ideas it would be the skill system (structure of the system, the secondary skill tree and all learning skills, dynamic allocation of points, books etc. and a nice way of visualizing the whole thing which unfortunately was never implemented), races and blood-mixing, the material system / dynamic crafting of items (although only battle-oriented stuff like weapons and armors got in during the time, and with no dyeing or marks, no reprocessing, and only a placeholder version of "recipes" which were supposed to be much more interactive), extraction and alloying (though only a very basic alloying system was actually implemented), dynamic structures (bridges and interactive stuff), flora and fauna and their respective phylogenetic trees, creature genes for advanced breeding, Etherworld (and later Spiritism), the first iteration of territory control, and a couple of systems that were quite complex where unfortunately only the tip of the iceberg could be seen/utilized in game due to restrictions mostly having to do with the former GUI (food system, alchemy, fishing, dynamic item identification/assessment). The first iteration of NPC-faction behaviour (real-time AI and spawn structure placement, resource deposits (like chests)), and "key"-items and "door"-items and some other interactive features were also my concepts and designs - introduced with the Risar invasion.
Henrik has always been the visionary and leader of the whole crew. As the Creative Director I was responsible for all art, sound and game design (excluding combat action and offensive magic as I explained above) from start until some time after Dawn.

And yes, I wrote the vast majority of the lore and did the world design up until then (history, religion, races, magic, geography, geology, biology etc.). Most of it was non-official though. I've been away for quite some time, but I'm doing my best in contributing to the team with some stuff right now.

Glad to see you back Mats. I certainly hope MO gets more lore introduced into the actual game. Especially new players need foundation for the world in which they are playing.

Since you created most of MO's gameplay system, I hope you will have time to polish the systems itself. Said butchery system is quite grindy and non-interactive since it includes only staring at the screen for 30 seconds until mats appear. Mining and lumbering system share the similar issue. Also, would could have more use, like being a fuel that helps the extraction and crafting process.

I made one post listing these gameplay issues. IMO, modern MMO must have dynamic gameplay with zero downtimes.
Thread starter #48


Silver Supporter
First of all, a disclaimer: My thoughts here are not a description on how the in-game systems in MO work. What this means is that although I write about evolution, we don’t have actual dynamic evolution in the game. And if I write about shape-changing magic, it doesn’t mean there will be the same kind of magic accessible for players in the game. We will try to implement some of these ideas in due time, but this text is to be regarded as my own design philosophy as Creative Director for our game:

In the world of Mortal Online life is based on evolution. While somewhat different from our real-world evolution, it follows the principles of natural selection, adaptation and genetic drift, meaning a creature will develop according to its environment. What most obviously differs from real-world evolution is the speed of this evolutionary process; it is progressive and could be said to have a memory. To be more specific, “genes†may sometimes change and adapt during a creatures actual lifetime, meaning for example that an individual that develops extraordinary strength during its life may actually pass this on to its offspring – somewhat similar to the old theories of inheritance of acquired characteristics or pangenesis. For instance, putting a flock of wolves on an isolated island would not only produce a new wolf-race, it would probably lead to a new type of wolf-species in a matter of only a few generations. This quick adaptation comes with a price though, as overspecialization breeds in weakness.

On top of this, the Gods or rare magic have historically interfered with the evolutionary process although it is nowadays forbidden by the gods themselves by the ancient Rule of Dawning. However, if one were to break that rule, this kind of manipulation must still obey certain primary rules of nature, and it costs a lot of energy. In essence, the more a creature is to be changed, by forcing evolution in a certain direction or by speeding it up (or by reversing it), the harder it becomes and the more energy is required. If a God for instance wanted to create an entirely new type of creature from nothing the energy cost would be tremendous, while modifying or combining already existent species according to their hereditary possibilities would be much cheaper.

Due to the nature of genetic heritage (a creatures or persons Sheut in the MO world, meaning core or shadow –their physical form), creatures may undergo relatively dramatic changes in a short time. Over some generations, a species may re-shape its arms to fins to adapt to a life underwater for instance, although naturally adapting by evolving an extra pair of limbs would be very rare as there would be no rudimentary limbs to start from: it would have to happen as a result of a mutation or as an atavism (meaning characteristics from a much earlier stage in evolution would appear again). On the other hand divine intervention, life-manipulation rituals or controlled breeding opens up the possibility for recalling such features on a wider scale, although that knowledge together with the conscious creation of new species are regulated and forbidden by the Gods as mentioned before.

However, before the Rule of Dawning several creations saw the light of day as a result of forced manipulation by the Gods themselves or by intelligent species wielding great power. Thus, manipulated creatures combining different traits between evolutionary branches such as Griffin or Minotaurs appeared, and those that weren’t overspecialized for their “purpose†managed to survive the coming events and produce offspring, leading to new species and races over time as they too adapted to the environment. Likewise, the majority of “intelligentâ€, in this case meaning conscious, creatures has been dawned in similar events requiring even more power, although a minority is a product of natural evolution.

Apart from the “natural†creatures of the world, so-called magical beings also exist. They could be said to follow the same evolutionary rules as the natural ones, but as most magical creatures exist only temporary or are powered by a magical or divine source, the energy cost of modifying them is much less than for permanent creatures, allowing for far more flexibility. This is true for both spirit beings and artificial life such as the undead.

Finally, there are truly ancient creatures in the world that were created when not even the primary rules of life and nature where set in stone among the gods. But of those you won’t learn here ;)

It’s both a great challenge and a big responsibility to create an entire eco-system for a fantasy MMO that in MO’s case should also be believable and coherent. I’ve chosen to go with a system I know by heart, modifying it slightly along the way. Designing the ecology around the principles of evolution has not only produced consistency but a lot of species, families and clades I would never have thought about including otherwise. Also, the inherent hierarchical design of the evolutionary tree is of course very useful in the actual game mechanics. (To make up an example: we have the possibility to introduce a certain Sheut-damage enchantment for swords, where you upon enchanting the sword get to choose if you want it to deal 100% of its damage to only a specific race, or 50% of its damage to a group of races (a species), or 25% of its damage to all races in all species in an entire family. Then again, to learn that spell you probably have to learn about the creatures and their evolutionary branches in the game.)

Thank you for reading. I’m really looking forward to the day you’ll join the game to hear your comments on our world!
It seems that genetic experimentation may have led to a lot of our monsters. :eek:


Well-Known Member
I'm looking forward to when salt is weaponised.

Salt water made undrinkable would be great. Sowing salt into enemies' land that it may never again bear pickables, that would be priceless.
Thread starter #50


Silver Supporter
Resin – Dryad
The Dryad fits the theme of MO well. A good description together with a nice concept made us fall for this rather special creature. Nymphs and their sub-species are already in and at this point, we don’t know if we will rewrite and adjust the rest of our Nymph lore according to Resin, or if we will re-classify and rename Resin’s Dryad to keep our own lore intact (probably into a special tree-creature). Anyway, you will be able to follow its progress here on the forums!
Where these Nymphs at?

There have been much discussion about the names of our races/species, and this poll (official this time but thank you Fortinbras) is for me to have some real data behind my next decisions. And remember that this poll is not about the races themselves, but their names. Please read on before voting, I'll try my best not to ramble too much :rolleyes:
For me who reads a ton of history, religion, myth and fiction, names and lore are of course really important. I've been thinking a lot about the decision to use the "regular" names elves and orcs lately because of the discussions, and to summarize my thoughts, I believe this is the way I look at it myself (true for both elves and orcs):

The concept of "elves" is very common in folklore, taking on different names (local/regional varieties of the name) and loosely sharing similar attributes. Well, let's call all these forest-dwelling "people/beings" close to nature, although not homogenic, like Alfs, Elves, Älvor, Vilya, Fairies, Metsän Väki, Albs, Ngùoi Rùng, Nymphs (Dryads), Dvergar, Enkidu, Lele, Huldufólk, Vitterfolk, Orang Bunian, Moss People, RÃ¥, Veela (Lisovyk), Tuatha Dé Danann (SÃdhe) et.c. for an Elf Conception for a lack of a better word. As this Elf Conception is very broad, a lot of (most of?) the fantasy lore out there could be said to have some kind of Elf Conception in them, sometimes purely stolen/borrowed from one another, other times actually researched from myths like those above and bundled with fresh and new ideas.

Now, when I see a game or a piece of literature that has an Elf Conception called "elves" in it my first thought is:
  • -Interesting, let's see how they have made the Elf Conception this time!
  • -Nooo, the Elf Conception is called elves again!
Because to me, the name "elves" are not necessarily a synonym to Tolkien-Elves or D&D-Elves or any other elves, it's simply the English word for an Elf Conception. And as English is MO's "Common Speech", they are officially (like in their presentation) called "elves" in MO, although that is not what they call themselves in their own language. The name elves is easy to understand and remember, and for those interested (like myself) there do exist other names (often difficult to pronounce and/or remember :rolleyes:) under the surface. What's bad though is that, as seen many times here on the forums, people seem to jump to conclusions and have prejudices solely based on the name elves itself, thinking they will be like "those other elves in that other game" and/or that they are unoriginal because their official name is not unique.

The risk of only showing their "original" name though, is a third reaction:
  • -Oh no, what a difficult and unnecessary (and silly!?) name for an Elf Conception!
To draw a parallel, not to compare myself to Tolkien in any way, but to illustrate the problem that Tolkien also faced:
Tolkien's "elves" was named "elves" to be readable and vaguely recognizable - it's simply the English word for them (or imaginary Westron-English to be exact). Just as "Meriadoc Brandybuck's" actual name was supposed to be "Kalimac Brandagamba" in his own language(!), the name "elves" was "Quendi", and you can choose to point directly to any of the races by saying Amanyar, Avamanyar, Calaquendi, Moriquendi, Sindar or Úmanyar (or why not Eldar/Avari for the clades).

I wouldn't really mind removing the name "elf" from the "forest elf" and instead only use what they call themselves in their own language. But then again, we are making a "fantasy" game that has a lot of creatures with conventional fantasy names, that although they are inspired from history are very common in other fantasy productions and therefore can be referred to by their common name and be easily remembered (like Minotaurs). Or should we rename those creatures too for the sake of it? They would still be very.. minotaurish in appearance? (And would probably be called Minotaurs by most people anyway.) But that's another poll.

Now, finally, I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions as I guess I'm not the "average player" in this case. What do you think would be best option for the common reception of MO, and what do you think about the names "elves" and "orcs"!?
Thank you, thanks again Traceur, thank you all for your opinions. I really do hope you'll find MO's races to be more than simple clichés, but I guess I was actually afraid people would be annoyed (or find it pretentious) if I were to name the "forest dwelling people with pointy ears" something else than elves (as they are inspired by both folklore elves and elf-like people such as certain Gaulic and Celt tribes). But then again, that is probably my own prejudices echoing in my head :rolleyes:
Oh yes, the Santa Elves!

But they are called Xsanthéa Elphes in MO as Xan = Alternate Khurite spelling of Khan, and Théa (θεά) means "goddess" in Old Tindremic - referring to when the Khans (Moguls) of Myrland according to legend gave free passage to the goddess Themis over the plains of Myrland by sacrificing one child for every obstacle she ran into, also known as the March of the Billungs/Hjukings by the Tindremenes. (Billungs being sporadic tribes caught up in the moment, Hjukings being healthy traditional ones.)

And as Themis was more than a little overweight there where lots and lots of children being tossed into streams and caves for sacrifice.
Now once every 10'th year the "Xsanthéa Elphes" are said to bring gifts to every tribe that helped with Themis crossing as compensation.

(Other legends simply tell about an enormous Tindremic device of cast iron that needed to be transported over the plains, costing many lives of those friendly Khurites helping out. And of the Khurites only being paid once in a whole year, when they got small meaningless things like "toe-nail-cutters" embedded in colorful paper wrappings.)

..yes, I will go to bed. :(
(I know that last one was a joke but I had to quote it)
Good question.
Actually, I'd hoped we would have had the time to include name-generators (they're not that hard to make), but when I look at the schedule we probably won't, due to other stuff. Not that I'm a big fan of name-generators per se, but it hopefully would have helped people finding a good name to start with/modify (unless they were determined to name their character to MRp3niz from start) :rolleyes:

I'll make sure to give you examples though. If not in the lore presented on the official site, at least I'll make certain you'll find some on the character-creation screen. Or, please post questions in the "questions" thread, either for the already presented races or as soon as the texts for the next races are presented.
:mad: We still don't have this!
For me (the "storyline writer") it's the complete opposite:

First of all, I don't find the stereotypical elves and orcs found in games or literature believable. And how could you possibly write a good "story" for a game that's supposed to be "believable" with unbelievable races/cultures?

Second, I'm not satisfied by simply copying a concept (especially if I don't find it believable), as it will be just another stereotypical cliché, at best. I know that sometimes it will seem like I have in fact copied concepts from other games, but I would say in the majority of cases it's because the "sources" (myth, legends, religion) happen to be the same. I don't care if the race is "common" in other games or books, because I don't get them from other games or books: they come from our own history and legends, and my imagination. (Just as they originally did for those other games - although I guess many/most have just copied them over and over again, degenerating them from Tolkien, not from their origin in myths).

The Forest Elfs of MO mostly springs from Norse, Celtic, Irish and Hungarian mythology and are in fact "acting" much more true to their original counterparts than the schwifty-five other elf-races in other games wearing gems as large as a bowling-ball, or having purple skin, or being natural enemies of the neon-green Orcs with teeth that makes it impossible for them to close their mouths.. and so on.

Third, connected to the first but so important that it has to have it's own paragraph: I don't believe in the concept of Good and Evil, or Good and Bad, as you put it. There are no evil races. Humans may think that Half-Orcs are evil, but Half-Orcs will say it's the opposite. Who am I to say who's right? It's up to the player to decide, and for me to give an objective and plausible background.

Orcs need to have a working society, although crude and primitive, and how would they manage that if they ran around being "evil" all the time. And what does that mean, evil?
-That they burn villages? So do Humans.
-That they eat their own children? Uhm, no, probably not, as they would have problems existing as a species if they did.
-That they eat the Human children? Well, if they did it's probably part of a ritual to give them strength while at the same time reducing the enemies' future numbers. And is that really so much worse than the Humans leaving Orcish children to starve to death for days?
-That they worship the evil god xx? Well, we've just moved the problem further up the ladder - who's to say god xx is evil?

This is also something that I would say differs a lot from Tolkien's adaptation of the mundane myths - maybe because of Tolkien's personal beliefs, maybe because the books had to be subjective to convey an exciting story, I don't know. For instance, Tolkien decided to completely remove the dark side of the elven mythology from his elves, making them in essence all-out "good", whereas in mythology there's definitely an "evil" side to them as well.
The Rå/Huldra? Yes, lorewise they are already a part of the quite large MO Alvarin family-tree, and I'd love to include them - although they won't be playable.
Thread starter #51


Silver Supporter
I agree. Yes. But playing a half orc will have its advantages and disadvantages. And it's up to you if you actually roleplay these feats too. I could say: Half orcs gets -3 in "thoughtfulness", but explaining what kind of mentality mosthalf orcs have will instead give the player a chance to actually roleplay them instead.
would i be a bad roleplayer if my half-orc origin story is one of love?
No, you would probably be a good roleplayer, as long as your story acknowledges the current setting, i.e. that the love relationship you are talking about is an exception, like Romeo and Juliet ;)
The thing is, my hope is that actually giving you a back story will produce these kind of reactions, which would not be possible if the half orc facts just read: An evil race. Big, green, large teeth, +1 in strength and constitution.
Of course Fantasy Races is a hot topic, and I understand why it is. Let me give you some history and share our thoughts about the design decisions we have made:

I've always liked fantasy, and I've been playing classical role-playing games a lot since my childhood, at first loving them for what they were. As time grew though, I got more and more sick of the "traditional" races in the games, as they all seemed one-sided, unrealistic and.. uhh.. not thought through in their culture or way of life. When the campaigns I created became more and more serious, the races felt more and more out of place in the world. I found out the hard way that inventing new races or evolving the not-so-used ones (minotaurs, for example) didn't help in solving the problem - as each new race either became realistic but boring or the opposite - even more unrealistic in appearance. Or they simply came across as "bad copies" of the traditional ones. You also have to remember that the races in RPG's often have been copied and copied over again from the "source", sometimes adding cool stuff but all too often resulting in degenerated and not thought-through descriptions. (Orcs are big and green and aggressive and have large teeth, +5 in strength, -5 in intelligence).

For example: Let's say the key features of a race are that they are strong and power-hungry. This would probably mean they have a strictly hierarchical society and/or a ruthless survival-of-the-fittest mentality. Applying this to a race with meek body-type would be hilarious at best, meaning they would probably have to be based on a strong physique too. Grotesque humans, already made (orcs). Oxen-men, already made (Minotaurs). Wolf-men, Reptile-men, lion-men, dragon-men, hyena-men, already made. The list goes on, and the further down you get, the more hilarious and unbeliaveble the races.

Letting humans be the only race didn't solve the problem either. As it still should be "epic fantasy" they had to be rediculously big and strong or have extreme abilities to make up for the discarded races, which just made the game feel like a super-hero comic book. And of course the players wanted to meet allies or enemies that had extraordinary abilities or were smaller, bigger, stronger than is possible for natural humans while at the same time being intelligent. In short, there needed to be intelligent races other than human. And my answer finally was to reinvent the old, traditional ones with little regard to their origins. New cultures and societies. New religions. Less extreme, role-playable features in appearance and mind-set. New roots in geneology or making. New history and behaviour, this time actually tied to the world where they lived - not races forced to play the role they had had in their original context.

When disussions started around Mortal Online (or, "the game" as we called it back then), the suggestion to include some of the traditional races in "our own RPG" first seemed totally against my designer/artist-mind in what would be cool, believable or serious. But after thinking things through, I managed to made up my mind. If the game is to be harsh, serious, and realistic in a "believable fantasy way", then let's make the races in the same way and give it a shot. I still haven't seen a fantasy-game where this has been given a real chance. Or at least, not in "my" way.

I do have a lot of confidence in our current design, as I know there's a lot to support it beneath the surface. But it's still a very difficult decision to have made. Of course a lot of people will rule out our races without even seeing them. Or even more likely, before finding out about their backgrounds.

The funny thing is, the same would be true if we'd made only totally new races from scratch. Being (somewhat) ironic, i think the possible scenarios when making a race, are:
  1. You make a race that is REALLY new. But for it to be REALLY new and not alike ANY other race from ANY other game, book or movie, you have to make it so crazy in design that everybody will laugh at it, or at least have a really hard time "understanding" it.
  2. You make a race that people can relate to, but get accused of stealing it from another game, as the snake-tail-people or grasshopper-men clearly must mean the designer took a look at Game X. (Which is the game the accuser played and therefore can relate to, but you as a designer never saw.)
  3. You consciously steal a somewhat unknown race from a movie, book or game, and get accused of stealing it. Or worse, you get a prize for your great race-designing skills.
  4. You make a new race, but people get disappointed in you as they think you've only put bad make-up on one of the traditional designs. -"Bah! They talk like elves and behave like elves but look like crap. Why didn't they just do regular elves?"
  5. You use a traditional race "as is", and get accused of not being creative at all as well as critizised for a race that feels out of place in your world.
  6. You use a traditional race and modify it to fit your game. People get disappointed at you for using the "same old Orcs" and for not being creative. Eventually, when they find out you have modified the race to actually work in the spirit of the game, they will say -"Now that's something a REAL Orc would never do. Haven't they read Tolkien? These Orcs suck!"
  7. You don't make races. People get mad at you for not being creative, and for making a boring non-fantasy game.
My guess is that the list above is rather complete, when it comes to design choises (and corresponding negative reactions). The reason for this is that there are only so many ways to go about when designing a race if the conditions are that it should:
  • Have a plausible anatomy
  • Be part of a culture that has evolved through the features of the race itself (i.e. if the race has a generally fiery temper the social development will be affected by this, or vice versa).
  • Have evolved naturally (and therefore have geneaological "ancestors" like humans come from apes, or have been "created" but adapted to the world around it in a logical way after creation.)
  • Be able to speak. (Telepathy is fine as an addition, but telepathy-only would cause problems for playable characters in digital mmorpg game design).
  • And this is most important - work in a MMO environment where it's forced to share features with other races. (A race with four arms may sound really cool at first, however the extra arms would only be cosmetic and of no use unless someone finds the time to implement (a working) interface for controlling the extra limbs. As well as modify the equipment system. And armor lists. And add crafting skills for the armors. And..)
One thing I'd really like to point out is that the traditional races didn't spawn from nothing when first created in their respective media. Let's take Tolkien's Elves and Dwarves as an example:

Both Elves and Dvarves originate from Norse mythology, where they are called Svartalfar (Black Elves) and Ljusalfar (Light Elves) respectively. "Alf" became "Elf", and the Svartalfar got the name Dwarves as the Svartalfar are also called Dvergar in the legends.

Ljusalfar = Elves
Svartalfar + Dvergar = Dwarves

Many names in LotR, including names of both Elves and Dwarves, are taken directly from Norse mythology, like Durin (name of a famous Dverg), Gimli (Gimlà means Heaven), Gandalf (Gandalf was a Dverg and a guardian spirit with a magical wand. Gand = Wand, Alf = Elf.) Attributes of the races are of course similar in many ways. Even "Middle Earth" itself comes from Norse "Midgardr" or "Mitlagard".

I'm a big fan of how Tolkien worked and of his research, imagination, linguistics and documentation, but not necessarily of the books themselves, meaning I absolutely don't know the names of all characters or their history. Now, as a Norse mythology enthusiast, my problem is that when I go back to the old legends and scriptures in my library to find inspiration, I might stumble upon for example the name Durin. As Durin is a Dverg, actually the second Dverg to be created, and also an extraordinary blacksmith according to the legends, I might find Durin an unbelivably good name for a legendary Dvarwen mastersmith in Mortal Online, without knowing that I follow the same trail as Tolkien. But hey! What I just did, according to some Tolkien-readers who then play our game, was to steal the name from Tolkien. Blasphemy!

The same of course goes for the half-orcs. (Sorry, fleshpipe, but I just have to say I haven't read any of the D&D manuals, ever, and if I've recreated ("copied") something it's probably due to "natural patterns": If you decide that the half-orcs are being discriminated in the world, and that the world works somewhat like in real life, much of the history writes itself so to speak.)

So, finally, what I'm trying to say is that there are no please-all solutions, although of course I really hope you will find the races in Mortal Online enjoyable and intriguing though they might look traditional at first glance. And thanks for reading this rant!

Marcus Aurelius

Silver Supporter
I go back to the old legends and scriptures in my library to find inspiration, I might stumble upon for example the name Durin. As Durin is a Dverg, actually the second Dverg to be created, and also an extraordinary blacksmith according to the legends, I might find Durin an unbelivably good name for a legendary Dvarwen mastersmith in Mortal Online, without knowing that I follow the same trail as Tolkien. But hey! What I just did, according to some Tolkien-readers who then play our game, was to steal the name from Tolkien. Blasphemy!

Sounds a bit like how I "ripped off" my name! Here I was just randomly combining classic Roman names that I thought sounded nice, and ended up subconsciously using the name of the main character from Gladiator who was based on a real, and renowned, Emperor! :confused:

Maybe one day they'll introduce name changes and we'll have some new Tindremic examples to inspire. ;)