MO Counter - Research and Findings

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Shinzon

Honored Member
I totaly agree with this; the entire year spent in Beta was focused on getting basic features up; since release while general stability has improved, and the "Foundation Mechanics" have gotten a major and most welcome improvement; for the year that the game has been released all of the speculation we had two years ago about the game, was centered around the lore, and the complex mechanics and interactions like the economy.

Right now it's dominated by a single set of thinking, and the best easter egg in the game we have is a piece of shit in the farm beside Tindrem. If there are secret features within the game that no one has found, it's not because the community is stupid, it's because no one knows how. We don't know how to interact with the world, and the best case for interaction with something has been a palisade gate opening and closing in an instant.

Since that is the only way we know how to interact with the world, people will try and search through that, so in some sense, you either have to drop the proper fleshed out lore for the landmarks so that people actually know or guess at the possible connections, or show how to interact in a trailer. PvP is a foundation mechanic, however it's just a single pillar, right now you have built a strong PvP core, the Economic pillar is getting a retrofit from the rotting planks it is now; however the "Lore" type Pillar; is still just a bunch of shit stacked together, shakily supporting the huge slab above.

Should any of those pillars buckle; well things will not look good. I have been around with MO for two years now, and the things that excited me most are still far away. Many of us have been patient, but I think that we at the very least deserved even a little bit of some sort of acknowledgment, or a nod.
 
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Rathius

Well-Known Member
I have only recently been clued in on the Old puzzle while researching for possible answers to the new Candle puzzle upon entering the site. Here is my translation of the poem that was revealed in the old puzzle. Sorry for its length, but it is meant to get people thinking and perhaps open some doors into the new mystery.

First, lets look at the poem... I feel it will have a strong connection to the things in the candels. If not, it will at least help to give an idea of what/how they are thinking.

am nave diluvi
am nave flagrati
effogo potes ti
fatuu et pysma
armillo gia
servatis clade

I took all the confusing "-"s out for legibility, as I did not find them useful in trying to translate.. if anything they made things more dificult.

The first word, "am" seems to be redundant. I have found no direct translation other than "am" as in "I am" which I highly doubt is useful. I think it is safe to assume it is a type of praise, like one might say "Oh! Nave is sinking!", which is my translation of the first line. "Diluvi" is pretty well understood as "flood" or "the flood" and is the father to the english word, deluge whick means, (in noun form) "flood of something, down pour", or (in verb form) "inundate with water" or cover in water.

Interestingly I also found that some translations of "nave" can mean "ship" or "boat" thust the word "Navy". Could it be that the developers intended the Island of Nave to be a boat of sorts? I guess it is in a way, since it is an island, apparently floating in the ocean. Very clever devs. :-D

So now, the second line is about as simple to translate as the first. "Oh! Nave is burning!". "Flagrati" is another easily translated word for "fire, flame, burn" in Latin and is where we get words like "Conflagration (con-flagrati-on)" meaning "large fire".

The rest of the stuff is not so simple... but we can go off what we have learned witht he first two lines. That should give us a fairly good foundation.

"Effogo potes ti" gave me some trouble but I think I have it sorted. I had to break these words down and combine them to come up with a coherent translations. First lets go with the obvious. "Effogo" came up in Latin as meaning something along the lines of "frighten off, drive away, send into exile" which sounds pretty good. Then it is followed by "potes" which also was a fairly direct translation into Latin as meaning "be able, can, having more power/influence", but the issue came in with the word "ti". "Ti" did have a possible translation, though very indirect as being an abbreviation for the possible refrence to the great Roman emporor Tiberius. However, (unless they plan to name one of the gods Tiberius) I think the devs would steer clear of mixing Naves history in with the Romans. So, looking at it strictly from this translation we might come up with something like, "Tiberius, powerful and ifluential, drive them away,". Though this sounds fairly good, I have come up with an alternative. Instead of "Effogo potes ti" if you move the letters about slightly one might also get "Effo go potest i" which can roughly translate to "I can go expressly". Both these seem to make a slight bit of sense but not quite enough, not until we add both translations together, subtracting the parts that do not fit. Thus I have translated line #3 to be "I have the power to drive them away."

Well, that wasn't so hard.. or was it?

Line #4 really starts to get confusing. "Fatuu et pysma" seems to only be partially translatable from Latin. Almost off the bat I recognise the word "Fatuu" as being the root of the word "Fatuous" meaning silly or pointless. When we add "et" behind "fatuu" the meaning changes slightly into "a fool". The problem then comes from the word "pysma" which has no roots in Latin but rather in Greek, which is a word describing "the asking of multiple questions successively (which would together require a complex reply)," or " a rhetorical use of the question". This does make sense in the end, adding the three words we get something along the lines of "Am I a fool?", which is obviously a rhetorical question from a poetic stadpoint, as though someone is asking themselves that qestion. Knowing this I feel it is nesicary to tweek the translation of line #3 slightly. Instead of thatrting as a statement, lets turn it into a question as well, "Do I have the power to drive them away?"

So... lets us see what we have thus far...

"Oh! Nave is sinking,
Oh! Nave is burning!
Do I have the power to drive them away,
Am I a fool?"

Now, for line #5. The simple line it is is the hardest to decode. At this point, in order to get the best and most coherent translation we have seen the languages Latin and Greek but, unfortunately "armillo gia" or any variation "armi llo gia", "arm illo gia", "armil lo gia", "armil logia" and so forth has brought up nothing coherent in either language. So, I broadened my search and found a relatively rought translation in Italian taking the words "armi lo gia" which translates to "weapons it already". Now, I would think that having gotten this fat, and since this was origionally meant to be a puzzle, they would intentionally make it harder as you progress... thus the third language and the very poor translation. On top of this there is the myth of a weapon called the Armillogion (1) which is reputed to see into the future, thus making it the ultimate weapon. However, I feel this coincidence in wording was put in merely to confuse and mislead, though it is entirely possible that it is a sentance with two meanings... especially when we translate the final line.

Line #6: "Servatis clade" is a throw back into Latin as far as I can tell. It has no meaning in either Greek or Italian nor any other language. "Servatis" in itself is a rather interesting word that can have many different meanings but in its most direct form it translates to "watch over, protect, store, keep, guard, preserve, or save". However, if we break the word into two parts, "servat is", we get "watch over, protect, store, keep, guard, preserve, save" AND "he/she/it/they/them". Really all the mystery is in the first word for "clade" is fairly straight forward in translation meaning "disaster, defeat, casualties, slaughter, carnage, devastation, plauge, or scourge".

Now, knowing what we know about the final two lines, I think it is safe to say we are not looking at just a poem, but a prayer, a plee of sorts and thus I come to my final translation:

"Oh! Nave is sinking,
Oh! Nave is burning!
Do I have the power to drive them away,
Am I a fool?
My weapon is drawn,
Guard me from defeat."

Or, if we use the translation of "servat is" we get soething like this:

"Oh! Nave is sinking,
Oh! Nave is burning!
Does he have the power to drive them away,
Is he a fool?
His weapon is drawn,
Guard him from defeat."

One might also say there is a hidden message as well in lines 5 and 6 with refrence to the Armillogon saying something along the lines of "The ultimate weapon, Armillogon, guards me from defeat."

I know this has little, if nothing, to do with the current puzzle we have but I think it will be key to unlocking this new riddle.

(1) "When Vica Iudico sank into the ocean the Athenaeum Regalis disappeared as well, it was a well-regarded academy which also housed one of the largest collections of books and scrolls in the world. Those items which could be saved were divided between the Clerus Magica and the former city hall in Forum Tindrem, which has taken over the role as both library and courthouse. One of the most important items recovered was the Armillogion device – a kind of ancient orrery of mystical origin that according to legend was the reason to the success of the old empire because of its ability to predict the future. Unfortunately no one has ever understood how the mechanism in the item worked and since it stopped working during the flood it now mostly stands in its new place in the Clerus Magica collecting dust." - Lore of the Armillogion
 

Shinzon

Honored Member
I think one thing that should be settled is the perspective and the intended audience. Every poem has a sort of a "Speaker" and an "Audience", this entire thing comes off more as a warning and re-telling of what has happened, a sort of last plea for help, instead of an open question.
 
Thus why I feel it must have been a prayer of sorts? That of a warrior to a god, or a lover praying for their partner.

Since the conflux has apparently already happened, I would take this as no more than a piece of history. It hints at the situation that might have surrounded the disaster.. One might theorize that the Risar attacks were so devastating to Nave, the priest and rulers might have triggered the conflux in a last ditch effort to fend off the beast.

It is really no different that if we were to find an ancient poem in the tomb of a king or grave of a nobleman. The only information we lack to solve this puzzle is a time frame (which might be revealed in the orrery) and good knowledge of what all happened during that time frame to sufficiently deduct what this poem/prayer might be referring to.
 

Shinzon

Honored Member
I don't think the Conflux was a singular even; though granted there was probably an ending crescendo, if the lore is to be taken as a guide; it would seem that the Tindremic Empire was "In the shits" or building up to it for a long time. The Risar lore we have posted I believe is post conflux; as there are constant references to the Risar being turned away by Nerub'Madgulu; though they took over Gol'Kour, they were halted at Nerub"Madgulu.

At the same time there are descriptions of a high amount of corruption within the ruling body of Tindrem, and a huge discrepancy between the politicians in Tindrem and the reality of things. It would seem that Tindrem declared multiple wars all over the place and was fighting all them; most due to the fact that senators wanted to quickly climb the political ladder.

So the Conflux could be a long build up of social decay topped of with crescendo's that were either natural or man induced. I would lean towards the fact that they were man induced, as that would fall well in line with the theme of "Tindrem's Hubris", the state of other civilizations pre-conflux is very un-clear. It would seem as if only the Tindremenne were severely impacted. With the Khurite and all other races being relativley unaffected culturally. Though that may be wrong since we have no clear refrences.

It would also be interesting to know if humanoid races of Nave have any records on what the conflux was; the Sators for example, or even the rat men. Though unfourtantaly we lack any skills in-game or supplementary lore posted on the website.
 
but isnt nave the world and not the island, thats myrland meaning if it was in relation to being a boat then that would mean every single island ingame would infact be nave. Doesnt make sense sorry.
 

benonai

Trial Member
am nave diluvi
am nave flagrati
effogo potes ti
fatuu et pysma
armillo gia
servatis clade

I took all the confusing "-"s out for legibility, as I did not find them useful in trying to translate.. if anything they made things more dificult.

The first word, "am" seems to be redundant. I have found no direct translation other than "am" as in "I am" which I highly doubt is useful. I think it is safe to assume it is a type of praise, like one might say "Oh! Nave is sinking!", which is my translation of the first line. "Diluvi" is pretty well understood as "flood" or "the flood" and is the father to the english word, deluge whick means, (in noun form) "flood of something, down pour", or (in verb form) "inundate with water" or cover in water.

"Oh! Nave is sinking,
Oh! Nave is burning!
Do I have the power to drive them away,
Am I a fool?
My weapon is drawn,
Guard me from defeat."

Or, if we use the translation of "servat is" we get soething like this:

"Oh! Nave is sinking,
Oh! Nave is burning!
Does he have the power to drive them away,
Is he a fool?
His weapon is drawn,
Guard him from defeat."

One might also say there is a hidden message as well in lines 5 and 6 with refrence to the Armillogon saying something along the lines of "The ultimate weapon, Armillogon, guards me from defeat."

I know this has little, if nothing, to do with the current puzzle we have but I think it will be key to unlocking this new riddle.

(1) "When Vica Iudico sank into the ocean the Athenaeum Regalis disappeared as well, it was a well-regarded academy which also housed one of the largest collections of books and scrolls in the world. Those items which could be saved were divided between the Clerus Magica and the former city hall in Forum Tindrem, which has taken over the role as both library and courthouse. One of the most important items recovered was the Armillogion device – a kind of ancient orrery of mystical origin that according to legend was the reason to the success of the old empire because of its ability to predict the future. Unfortunately no one has ever understood how the mechanism in the item worked and since it stopped working during the flood it now mostly stands in its new place in the Clerus Magica collecting dust." - Lore of the Armillogion
I have one problem with the translation, but you almost said it in your post. The first line should read, Oh! Nave is flooding! Not sinking. These are obviously tied to the two impacts, one caused flooding, one caused volcanism. The Armillogion line i think is probably the intended meaning. Figuring out how to wield the Armillogion is going to be what drives the politics in Nave in the future. Once Tindrem is open and we can possibly access some of the lore in the library (hopefully), this should start another whirlwind of opportunities for piecing together these overarching riddles.

On another note, i went yesterday for the first time to Morin Khur. Has anyone ever posted about the symbol used in all of their decoration? The circle with the crescent thing? I was on top of the tallest building up against the mountains there (is it the temple?) and I was looking down from the second to highest roof and the picture of the winged monster (can't remember his name) that killed the dragon has his wings in a circular arch that looks straight thru one of the large statues of this symbol, also circular, almost like it's tying the temple to something on the ground underneath the tall tower in the middle of the town. I'll have to take a screenie later to show, but it does seem like a strange coincidence that they are aligned in such a way. Also, that symbol looks very similar to the completed picture of the solar system with the asteroid belt and everything.
 

Kuroi

Well-Known Member
take a pic bonenai!
 
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Rathius

Well-Known Member
Best I can get from what he described is this:

And that's from the top of the wall at that building, I don't know how he managed to get on top if he was at the very very top. Otherwise, on the next highest level there is a decor piece in the way of a central look that is too high to jump on as well.

In any case, a higher view would mean looking down more.. Which would pretty closely be the bell in the center. And that's the actual bell, not the spot on the ground under it.
 

benonai

Trial Member
thats where i was, standing just next to that wooden ornament from next to highest roof. I took a pic but it didnt show very well so i went down and looked from the ground up and its directly underneath the bell. There's a carpet on the ground under the bell with a design on it. I started looking at the different glyphs around and trying to piece together.... something. anywayz, for a while i couldn't find any carpets like the one under the bell anywhere else in town so i thought i was on to something. but then i found two others at that little area with tents just down from the top staircase leading from the temple thing i was standing on. From what i can tell, and i searched every building of town, those are the only 3 rugs like that. Not so convinced it's special in that regard anymore. could just be coincidence in the layout. But the metal crescent sculpture thats all over town is very suspicious to me still, as if it has meaning.
 

TheEndOfAll

"The Biggest Catch" Champion
But the metal crescent sculpture thats all over town is very suspicious to me still, as if it has meaning.
You're not alone in your thinking there.

Garuda Wiki said:
They had blocked the way to the elixir with a fierce mechanical contraption of sharp rotating blades. Reducing his size, he crept past the rotating blades of their murderous machine.
Only possible link I could find for them. But still this based off the thought that Geeredh = Garuda.
 

Airfell

Junior Member
I have just spent an entire evening, (yes, its now morning) reading over this whole thread, and still have no conclusions, nor did Mats ever really explain anything.

My reason for looking over this- Hoping that some "current" puzzles might have missing chunks of lore in it from older lore. In a way, hoping new lore puzzles would have layered over old lore puzzles.

Conclusion- none.

Reason for my conclusion= Even in the years (yes plural: 4th February 2009, 23:31) of this thread being around, we still have no conformation of anything tangible other than the solar system and the name of the planet we live on in Mortal.

I'm somewhat saddened as I don't like lack of closure.

Also, why have all of Unimats posts been deleted?
 
Thread starter #816

Rathius

Well-Known Member
I have just spent an entire evening, (yes, its now morning) reading over this whole thread, and still have no conclusions, nor did Mats ever really explain anything.

My reason for looking over this- Hoping that some "current" puzzles might have missing chunks of lore in it from older lore. In a way, hoping new lore puzzles would have layered over old lore puzzles.

Conclusion- none.

Reason for my conclusion= Even in the years (yes plural: 4th February 2009, 23:31) of this thread being around, we still have no conformation of anything tangible other than the solar system and the name of the planet we live on in Mortal.

I'm somewhat saddened as I don't like lack of closure.

Also, why have all of Unimats posts been deleted?
I always try and jump Mats for the 'confirmations' that he never brought, but no luck. :/

As for Unomat, he rage quit and deleted all of his posts. He got pissed I called him on hoarding 'information' and only asking for confirmation from devs instead of asking the rest of us to look it over, in this very much -community- oriented thread. He was essentially bragging "I found something" but thought he was special enough to get the devs to respond directly to him in PMs or some such nonsense and continued to hold it over our heads and never explain any of it.
 

Shinzon

Honored Member
Unomat was never really happy with the way I ran things in AI, towrads the end of it he essentially told me "You are too young to run shit". We began the initial research on the counter in secret, when we noticed that the images were actually changes, and were in sequence. We needed to work fast because it was a matter of time until the rest of the community caught on to what was happening.

When threads began appearing that were saying that the counter had something else in it, we had to move quickly and sort of create the official post you now see. Originally Unomat did a lot of the image analysis work (This is hardcore stuff; he separated the different layers out so we could read them). Initially he wanted to make this post, but time was of the essence, and I told Rathius to make the post.

Unomat blew his top off, and then committed his remaining MO career to try and slander us. He dissapeared when "The Scions" lead by an old AI member "Drakus" dropped off the face of the earth after a moderating disagreement in some argument thread.
 
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