Mortal Online 2 on Google Stadia

Thread starter #1

Wollkneul

Junior Member
Apply here:

https://stadia.dev/apply/

Google unveiled it´s game streaming platform Stadia:

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/03/19/google-announces-its-video-game-platform-stadia

This would be the perfect platform for Mortal 2 for several reasons:

Stadia will be compatible with Unreal Engine 4

On this platform Server and Client are the same. That means the number of visible items, buildings, character, etc on the screen is just limited by the computing power of the server, which is enormous. For you, the player, it doesn´t matter if you see 1 player on your screen or 1000 players. This would make it possible to place items in the world like in Ultima and these items could stay there forever without decay.

Star Vault wouldn´t have to put any development time into the netcode, wouldn´t have to limit itself in game design and could design Mortal as if it were a singleplayer game.

Mortal Online 2 would be at the edge of game development and would get extra publicity from that.

You may now object, that for a skill based game like Mortal, you need low latency, which is a problem for current streaming services.

This won´t be a problem anymore in 2 years. We are right now in the process of getting the 5g network set up and it will be done in at least this time frame.

This enables a huge part of the population download rates up to 20 Gbit/s

Take this oportunity Star Vault!

Edit: I update this post with additional information regarding Stadia, latency and streaming technology

Latency

Low latency because of Google´s data center network

In traditional networks, you never get a direct connection to a server. Your traffic is directed over countless nodes until it reaches the destination:



This is the main reason for latency. The signal itself can travel at almost light speed.

But Googles data centers have a direct connection since Google invested early in undersea cables.
On top of that, Google has over 7500 data center nodes across the whole world, that are connected to each other, which guarantees access to this network for most people.




Stadia is performing at least as good as the Xbox One right now

Eurogamer tested Stadia recently:

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-hands-on-with-google-stream-gdc-2019

"In terms of controller response though, AC Odyssey on Stadia feels very close to a local experience - timing-sensitive moves like parrying are achieved with no problem whatsoever - and that brings us on to another latency element. We tested using the Pixelbook's keyboard, while Google says that its controller's direct WiFi link to the server delivers further latency advantages. "

For a single player title, the whole latency on 15mb/s is 188ms. On a PC with 30fps 133ms.

If you add multiplayer into the equation stadia would have the same latency as a PC with 55ms ping. This is good.

And this is just with the current tech available at this very moment. 5g and Starlink will improve latency to a state when it´s better in multiplayer titles than anything that exists right now.

No more client-side prediction.

Since there is a difference between client state and server state in current tech, this inherently leads to problems of synchronization.
Every online game has it. You can recognize that sometimes in shooters when you are jumping behind a wall and still getting hit. This is because, on your client, your character was behind the wall, but on the server and on the client of everybody else, the character was still on the field. In Mortal I was hit countless times from an NPC or player, that was like 10m away from me. But on the server, they were of course right next to me.

With Stadia this will be a thing of the past.
What you see on the screen is always what happens on the server. The servers of Stadia are talking to each other very fast through their very own cable network, so they are pretty much in an instant up to date regarding the player states of each other.
When you press the jump button a few milliseconds later the server receives that command and lets your character jump. Then the server updates all the other servers instantly. Then this new "jump state" gets sent to everyone at the same time. Therefore everything you see on the screen is always the current server state and there is never a synchronization issue.

The problem of synchronization between instances is already implemented and solved by Google. Otherwise multiplayer wouldn´t be possible on Stadia.


Development

Infinite scalability


Because of the linear growth of necessary bandwidth and not exponential like in today's system (see this post ), every year the game will be able to get more players, more items, more houses on an infrastructure designed just to do that.

With stadia, the amount of objects, physics, players and so on is just limited by the upload capabilities and processing power of the server.
And these are the best of the world (Every instance on Stadia has more processing power than the current Xbox and PlayStation combined)

"Low latency internet won´t be out anytime soon"


Game development takes a lot of time, so this game will take at least 3 - 5 years until it is out, or in a decent state. In that time frame, a lot of radical technological advancements will be made like:

5g internet, launching this year and being deployed over the next 3 years
Starlink: The first constellation being launched this May.
Star link will provide low latency internet to the northern hemisphere (see).

Also, if Mortal 2 wants to sustain for a similar period of time like Mortal (10 years), it has to switch to cloud gaming at some point anyway for all the reasons discussed in this thread.

Lower development cost and time, because of one platform


Development would just have to be on Stadia. The whole focus can be on making the game run on one platform, so there won´t be any issues with drivers, different graphic cards, different cpus, etc. Almost all of the bugs in games are coming from the fact, that they have to run on different hardware with different software.
 
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Marcus Aurelius

Silver Supporter
This won´t be a problem anymore in 2 years. We are right now in the process of getting the 5g network set up and it will be done in at least this time frame.
I bet most of the world would disagree with this. In Australia, the average person can't even get more than 16 mbps, let alone 20 Gbps...

By all means offer it to people who can use the service, but the rest of us would need it on traditional platforms.
 
I bet most of the world would disagree with this. In Australia, the average person can't even get more than 16 mbps, let alone 20 Gbps...

By all means offer it to people who can use the service, but the rest of us would need it on traditional platforms.
Mortal online is a pay to win Game " you need to have a good hand of Money and a decent Device + perfect Network Connection's " to play Smoothly with a Perfectly performance it's not our Fault we have the upper Connection with the Best performance so why wouldn't we get the best in game ?. Its great opportunity for the greater Good we Shouldn't backed down because someone in a third or Second World Can't play :rolleyes: not a thing I need to worry about .
 

Marcus Aurelius

Silver Supporter
Mortal online is a pay to win Game " you need to have a good hand of Money and a decent Device + perfect Network Connection's " to play Smoothly with a Perfectly performance it's not our Fault we have the upper Connection with the Best performance so why wouldn't we get the best in game ?.

MO is not a pay to win game. Having good latency and a close connection to the server means nothing when your assets are being sieged whilst you're sleeping or at work... you're thinking strictly in terms of twitch action gameplay. Edit: It also means nothing if the original dream of having different in-world continents located on different real-world servers. You'd lose your perceived advantage as soon as you travelled.

That's also assuming that Stadia even has servers located in EU. Given Google/Alphabet's recent track record there, you might be streaming from elsewhere, which throws that advantage out the window anyway...

Its great opportunity for the greater Good we Shouldn't backed down because someone in a third or Second World Can't play :rolleyes: not a thing I need to worry about .
Australia is not a second or third world nation. Rural/Suburban America and Canada are not second or third world nations. In-fact a lot of third world nations have much better connections than their first world counterparts. Besides, that's a poor attitude for a globally marketable game...
 
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Thread starter #5

Wollkneul

Junior Member
Google has over 7500 data center nodes across the whole world.

Your argument is absurd. Google is one of the biggest companies in the world and by far the furthest on the edge of technology. Do you really think they would invest millions and millions of dollars in a product, that is just available for a small niche of gamers?
They know exactly what they are doing. They are disrupting the industry right now.

Your argument is also a classic example of short term pleasure vs long term benefits.
A lot of people are not able to sacrifice something of value in the present in order to get something of higher value in the future.
You want to sacrifice the future of video gaming for your game in order to play it in the short term.

5g is getting out this year.

"The adoption of 5G will even faster than what we saw on 4G, which was already fairly fast," said Ignacio Contreras, Qualcomm's director of marketing for 5G, at the company's summit at the end of 2018.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/5g-release-date,review-5063.html

In contrast to cable internet, it's much easier to set up. No digging, no permissions to open up streets, no cutting of trees, etc.
 
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Thread starter #6

Wollkneul

Junior Member
Another point for Stadia is infinite scalability.
Every year the game will be able to get more players, more items, more houses on an infrastructure designed just to do that.

If you can't use you imagination, here are some examples of what would be possible in an mmo:



 
At 31:17 they did a live demonstration of how Stadia would pretty much render all high-end gaming PCs (including my Alienware 13 R3 which I bought only 6 months ago :mad: ) and consoles obsolete. They really should’ve showcased Mortal Online instead of Assassin’s Creed Odyssey in my opinion, but fandom aside:

 
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Google unveiled it´s game streaming platform Stadia:

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/03/19/google-announces-its-video-game-platform-stadia

This would be the perfect platform for Mortal 2 for several reasons:

Stadia will be compatible with Unreal Engine 4

On this platform Server and Client are the same. That means the number of visible items, buildings, character, etc on the screen is just limited by the computing power of the server, which is enormous. For you, the player, it doesn´t matter if you see 1 player on your screen or 1000 players. This would make it possible to place items in the world like in Ultima and these items could stay there forever without decay.

Star Vault wouldn´t have to put any development time into the netcode, wouldn´t have to limit itself in game design and could design Mortal as if it were a singleplayer game.

Mortal Online 2 would be at the edge of game development and would get extra publicity from that.

You may now object, that for a skill based game like Mortal, you need low latency, which is a problem for current streaming services.

This won´t be a problem anymore in 2 years. We are right now in the process of getting the 5g network set up and it will be done in at least this time frame.

This enables a huge part of the population download rates up to 20 Gbit/s

Take this oportunity Star Vault!
Stadia will be linux based, requiring a linux build also be made. Also the client and server being the same thing makes no sense in a worldwide game like this, the servers would have to be in the same location, meaning some people would be getting several hundred milliseconds of screen delay.
The technical challenges of this would be astronomical compared to just remaking mortal online in ue4.
 

Marcus Aurelius

Silver Supporter
Google has over 7500 data center nodes across the whole world.

Your argument is absurd. Google is one of the biggest companies in the world and by far the furthest on the edge of technology. Do you really think they would invest millions and millions of dollars in a product, that is just available for a small niche of gamers?
They know exactly what they are doing. They are disrupting the industry right now.

Your argument is also a classic example of short term pleasure vs long term benefits.
A lot of people are not able to sacrifice something of value in the present in order to get something of higher value in the future.
You want to sacrifice the future of video gaming for your game in order to play it in the short term.

5g is getting out this year.

"The adoption of 5G will even faster than what we saw on 4G, which was already fairly fast," said Ignacio Contreras, Qualcomm's director of marketing for 5G, at the company's summit at the end of 2018.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/5g-release-date,review-5063.html

In contrast to cable internet, it's much easier to set up. No digging, no permissions to open up streets, no cutting of trees, etc.
My argument is absurd? You seem to think that EVERYONE is getting 5g in the next few years. Your entire article talks about nothing but the big US of A (as usual). It talks all about big cities and doesn't even touch on the fact that so many providers cap your data which doesn't make streaming a viable solution.

So yeah, this service is great if you live in an American city, according to your article. But you've skipped over my point about countries in Asia and Europe having various degrees of network accessibility. You will still be at a "disadvantage", according to that statement, because you are not located in Europe and this is a pay to win game apparently. All streaming is going to do is help those who can't afford a powerful PC. You're still going to have latency unless you're located where the server is... so I'm not sure what your argument is there.



And sacrifice the future of video games? What the fuck are you even talking about?... I'm pretty sure I said "By all means offer it to people who can use the service, but the rest of us would need it on traditional platforms."... but sure, I'm trying to "sacrifice the future of gaming"...
 

Xunila

Cronite Supporter
5g is getting out this year.
Very funny, who cares about the release date when the implementation date is more interesting: Right now and since Tuesday there are auctions in Germany for the four big telephone companies to bid on frequency blocks. They have to implement and build the technology until end of 2022 for 98% of the people with 100 Mbit! That's far away from the possible 1 Gbit.

And I just checked today's state of 4G in Germany: In December 2018 the 4G technology had been available for 50-75% of the people depending on the three big phone companies.

And about Stadia: Do you really mean a small company like StarVault would be able to start development for not yet released platform before next year or the year after? And then finish and release their game within another 2-3 years?
 
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Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
Maybe Google suffers* a little from NetFlix Syndrome: too often it starts things, then drops them before viewers/users are finished. Google Reader, Google+, etc.?

* Or, rather, it doesn't suffer from this, but it is a carrier.
 
I hope they won’t take away the ability to mod games like we can right now, if they can make it work instantaneously that would make the new tech more appealing.

Imagine running a dozen or so mods with just a few mouse clicks, no waiting and sorting which is always a pain.
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
I hope they won’t take away the ability to mod games like we can right now, if they can make it work instantaneously that would make the new tech more appealing.

Imagine running a dozen or so mods with just a few mouse clicks, no waiting and sorting which is always a pain.
That'd be really fun. @Tuhtram brought up a good point about modding Mortal Online in this thread: https://www.starvault.se/mortalforums/threads/suggestion-add-modability-of-textures.88149/ which at the time made me give up all hope of the idea, but mods are something I miss and haven't been able to use much for a long series of games. In MO, I kept having to re-do even things as simple as keybinds and hotbars, which was tedious.
 
Thread starter #17

Wollkneul

Junior Member
I would like to address some of the arguments:

"Stadia will be Linux based, requiring a Linux build also be made. Also, the client and server being the same thing make no sense in a worldwide game like this, the servers would have to be in the same location, meaning some people would be getting several hundred milliseconds of screen delay.
The technical challenges of this would be astronomical compared to just remaking mortal online in ue4."

You don´t seem to understand the technology. The programming wouldn´t also have to be on Stadia, it would just have to be on Stadia. The whole focus can be on making the game run on one platform, so there won´t be any issues with drivers, different graphic cards, different cpus, etc. Almost all of the bugs in games are coming from the fact, that they have to run on different hardware with different software.

Regarding your server argument:

"In traditional platforms the client and server are connected by the unpredictable internet and therefore the multiplayer experience is limited by the client with the slowest or poorest quality connection but with stadia that game client and server both remain on Google's networking backbone resulting in predictable low latency reliable connectivity and data security since no traffic gets exposed to the public Internet what that means is a synchronized State across a very high volume of players where innovations like distributed physics can be built into your games where battle royale games could go from hundreds of players today to thousands of players tomorrow and as a new generation game platform stadia"


You never get a direct connection to a server. Your traffic is directed over countless nodes until it reaches the destination. Googles data centers have a direct connection since Google invested early in undersea cables:

https://www.datacenterknowledge.com...bmarine-cables-link-google-cloud-data-centers

The other argument is, that it won´t be available anytime soon to a mass audience because of poor connectivity.

Well, do you know what also won´t be out anytime soon? Mortal Online 2. Game development takes a lot of time, so this game will take at least 3 - 5 years until it is out, or in a decent state.
What some people don´t seem to understand is, that I´m talking about a long term strategy for the game:

1. Mortal Online exists for 10 years, Mortal Online 2 should therefore also try to manage that

2. Over the upcoming years, the speed of the internet will go up drastically worldwide, since there are a lot of new developments on the horizon. 5g is starting now, Elon Musks Starlink will be fully deployed it the mids of 2020 with speeds up to 1Gbps.

3. With enough bandwidth, it doesn´t make any sense to own your own PC, Console, whatever so the majority of players will switch to cloud gaming.

4. When the majority of players is switching to cloud gaming, it doesn´t make any sense to develop on traditional platforms

If you accept these premises, you also have to accept, that Mortal 2, if it wants to be around for a as long as Mortal, has to be on a cloud gaming platform. Otherwise, they will have to invest time and resources anyway to switch.
 
And please, for the love of Nave, allow us players to save our UI setup like hot bar icons, macros and preferences on the cloud.

Those of us who have had to reinstall MO in the past have had to stand around in Tindrem, and painstakingly re-customise everything on our UI for each of our four characters, while numerous random thieves take turns at snooping into our pockets right in front of us impudently and, Emperor-forbid, take whatever they please if we were foolish or forgetful enough to carry any valuables.
 

Akanir

Trial Member
isnt this whole stadia thing just letting you stream games meaning your computer doesnt have to be high powered to be good graphics? How would that in any way help with the development of MO2 or make it possible to do more?
 
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