Mortal Online 2 on Google Stadia

Thread starter #41

Wollkneul

Junior Member
Usually it's really hard to keep everything on sync. Mortal Online currently has nodes, which are split in regions. We have major bugs and lags when these notes meet each other (nodelines). Now assume that we still have different nodes, but they are no longer split in regions. So basically every position in the world is a nodeline (or several nodelines at once). Maybe some major AAA game studios are able to handle this complexity, but I doubt that a team with the resources of SV is able to handle this. Someone like unreal would need to implement such a system into their game engine, making it simple to use.
Maybe I didn´t make my point clear enough earlier about why it´s a magnitude easier on Stadia to Sync.
Synchronization on Stadia works different, compared to traditional online games, please read my posts about that again and try to understand this. Again: They are two completely different things. You can´t compare them in the way you did.
When a client crosses a node line all the data of that node line has to be sent to it at once. That´s why in Mortal you see all of the sudden other players, houses, etc. popping up. When a client leaves a node line, the server stops sending him messages and stops receiving messages from him. That´s why players disappear all of the sudden

In Stadia, there is no client, there is no server. They are both the same thing, called an instance. Nothing has to be synchronized between them, since they are the same thing, so you don´t need nodes or anything like that.
Regarding some major AAA game studio implementing this complexity: It´s done by Google, the technologically most advanced company on this planet. The problem you are describing, synchronization between instances, is already implemented and solved by them. Otherwise multiplayer wouldn´t be possible on Stadia.




"The signal in a fiber optic cable from Australia to the US would take about 0.00011 ms. As you can see the main reason for latency between these countries is routing along countless nodes, like this presentation pics of Google demonstrate: "
Right, but doesn't that mean when the public infrastructure would reduce the number of nodes (to let's say only 3 nodes), every player would get a much lower ping, which could also solve these dsync issues?
3 nodes?



"
Each line is drawn between two nodes, representing two IP addresses. This is a small look at the backbone of the Internet."


I have said it before, and I guess I have to say it again. The main reason for latency is routing, No more routing, much less latency.
Google has basically it´s own internet, it´s data centers can exchange terabytes near real time.



Quite frankly, I don´t understand what is your point exactly?

Do you think the way how Mortal works has advantages over Stadia?
If yes, please elaborate.
If no, what are you actually arguing about?
 
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Rhias

Junior Member
I give up. We will see in a few years how big the seuccess of stadia was. Maybe I was completely wrong.
 
Thread starter #43

Wollkneul

Junior Member
I give up. We will see in a few years how big the seuccess of stadia was. Maybe I was completely wrong.
Oh, I hope you didn't percieve the way I phrased my arguments as too harsh. If yes, I apologize.

What Star Vault should at least do is contact Google and ask for developing an MMO on Stadia and that they have experience developing an MMO, worked with Epic and so on.

If there are reasons that a MMO like Mortal is not possible on Stadia, Google will tell them.

If Google says yes, Star Vault can benchmark it and still decide if they want to use Stadia or not.

What do they have to loose?
 

Keurk

Senior Member
What do they have to loose?
i dont think they have much more to lose than the couple K players fanboiz who jumped the sinking boat since a few years. They are not even
fully compensating the people who lost characters,items etc during the data breach, databreach they could prevent since it already happened before. ALL the good ideas we gave to starvault they spitted on it, they throw bilions lines suggestions ,feedback, time taken like you did talking about stadias. They don't care, they are pathetic and at some point, justice will be given. The game population is dead, most people spit on this trash studio led by a fucking morron for good reasons. Not because we are haters. Because it is unnaceptable how things happened with starvault, mortal, and the community. They openly lie, do false promesses, they just running business without any passion anymore, i wish i could put my hand on henrik just to evacuate some anger about all this
 
Thread starter #46

Wollkneul

Junior Member
i dont think they have much more to lose than the couple K players fanboiz who jumped the sinking boat since a few years. They are not even
fully compensating the people who lost characters,items etc during the data breach, databreach they could prevent since it already happened before. ALL the good ideas we gave to starvault they spitted on it, they throw bilions lines suggestions ,feedback, time taken like you did talking about stadias. They don't care, they are pathetic and at some point, justice will be given. The game population is dead, most people spit on this trash studio led by a fucking morron for good reasons. Not because we are haters. Because it is unnaceptable how things happened with starvault, mortal, and the community. They openly lie, do false promesses, they just running business without any passion anymore, i wish i could put my hand on henrik just to evacuate some anger about all this
You seem to be very disappointed by Star Vault´s lack of keeping up to the standards and expectations that you have for video game developers and seem to be very passionate about that. That´s very understandable. But sometimes you truly hate something that you once loved, otherwise you just wouldn´t give a shit, right?

It may be strange to hear some spiritual advice in a video game forum in a thread about a streaming technology from a random guy with a bird profile pic, but why not.

When I was younger, I was often annoyed by people working at coat checks. A lot of times I waited much more than the people around me for my clothes and the coat check guys didn´t even seem to recognize me. How hard could it be to just notice how long somebody is waiting? As it turned out, very very hard, when I worked at a coat check myself. When you are behind the counter, you don´t see faces, you just see a million hands throwing their tokens against you and you have to catch them as fast as possible, run in the back, run back and then recognize the hand among a million other hands. It can be very stressful

I know it sounds like hippie talk, but it´s true. That was one of my greatest lessons in life and it reduced the amount of anger and suffering greatly. The ability to be able to see the viewpoint of other people and not just my own. In our today's culture, we don´t teach and life that. People are constantly generating enemies and we don´t even see each other anymore. We just see "the fucking SJWs", "damn liberals", "bigots", "white supramacists", etc. We don´t listen, we don´t care.

Making video games is hard. Making MMOs even harder. Companies regularly fail at it. Very big companies regularly fail at it. It is so hard. Making MMOs is the rocket science of computer games. Because it is so hard and resource intensive companies don´t want to risk a lot.
That´s also why we don´t see any innovations in that genre because it is so risky and hard. On top of that play mechanics in an mmo are a magnitude more unpredictable compared to single player -> even greater risk!
Even Ultima Online, the gold standart of a sandbox MMO, had to try out and fail again and again and again. They even wasted 3 years of game development on a system, that in the end didn´t work:

http://gametyrant.com/news/ultima-o...loping-systems-that-were-destroyed-by-players
.
As I said, there were tons of big companies that tried to develop a successful traditional MMO that was able to sustain.
Most of them failed.

Some people though try to innovate and do something new. Most of them failed.
Darkfall for example. They failed.

There was also a guild in Mortal, that was annoyed by the speed and way of Mortal´s development and they decided to make a MMO themselves:

http://cliqist.com/2016/03/02/embers-caerus-46k-kickstarter-cash-smoldered-existence/

Guess what happened.

There are countless of other examples.

I know you are angry at Star Vault, but try to look at things from their perspective. They are kind of the Elon Musk of video game development. They created an open world sandbox MMO with real time combat with a small team. That is basically impossible and they still did it.

There is another angle I would like you to look at.
For something to be created, it needs two things. Somebody who is able to create it and somebody who is willing to do it.When somebody has created something, therefore he must have been able to do it and been willing to do so. In that sense, the people at Star Vault have been the only humans on this entire planet, that were able and willing to create a MMO like this.
If there would have been others, that were able and willing to do it, they would have logically done it already, since they were willing to do it and able. Therefore, they are the best team for that endevour in the entire world, so far.

As much as you blame them for their mitakes, consider - they had the virtue to try it at least and they were the only ones, so far.

We always blame people for failing, but never celebrate them for trying.

I have a deep respect for that company and that´s the reason why I started this thread and invest my time in it. I want them to become the best possible version of themselves and succeed like never before. Why? That´s the only way how we make this world a better place in general. If we just spend our time making each other smaller, instead of greater, we will never get a better world and certainly not better video games.
 
Last edited:

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
I baked you a cookie!
... But then, I eated it. =(
But I bet no-one else
baked you a
cookie.
Or even tried.


(This interpretative poem courtesy of / is my $0.0013*.)

* The approximate number of folks active on these forums over the last month or so is about 0.13% (thirteen hundredths of a percent) of the total members shown on the front page-- which, of course, due to erasure + missing backups, does not include those who joined during the gap starting sometime in 2015 and ending in the summer of 2018, making it very likely that an accurate percentage would be much lower. If you, whoever you are, feel that your individual opinion on MO doesn't seem to count for much, something like the above may be part of the reason why. Don't shoot me; I'm only the messenger. Not responsible for emotional states occurring after reading this disclaimer.
 
Last edited:

Keurk

Senior Member
You seem to be very disappointed by Star Vault´s lack of keeping up to the standards and expectations that you have for video game developers and seem to be very passionate about that. That´s very understandable. But sometimes you truly hate something that you once loved, otherwise you just wouldn´t give a shit, right?

It may be strange to hear some spiritual advice in a video game forum in a thread about a streaming technology from a random guy with a bird profile pic, but why not.

When I was younger, I was often annoyed by people working at coat checks. A lot of times I waited much more than the people around me for my clothes and the coat check guys didn´t even seem to recognize me. How hard could it be to just notice how long somebody is waiting? As it turned out, very very hard, when I worked at a coat check myself. When you are behind the counter, you don´t see faces, you just see a million hands throwing their tokens against you and you have to catch them as fast as possible, run in the back, run back and then recognize the hand among a million other hands. It can be very stressful

I know it sounds like hippie talk, but it´s true. That was one of my greatest lessons in life and it reduced the amount of anger and suffering greatly. The ability to be able to see the viewpoint of other people and not just my own. In our today's culture, we don´t teach and life that. People are constantly generating enemies and we don´t even see each other anymore. We just see "the fucking SJWs", "damn liberals", "bigots", "white supramacists", etc. We don´t listen, we don´t care.

Making video games is hard. Making MMOs even harder. Companies regularly fail at it. Very big companies regularly fail at it. It is so hard. Making MMOs is the rocket science of computer games. Because it is so hard and resource intensive companies don´t want to risk a lot.
That´s also why we don´t see any innovations in that genre because it is so risky and hard. On top of that play mechanics in an mmo are a magnitude more unpredictable compared to single player -> even greater risk!
Even Ultima Online, the gold standart of a sandbox MMO, had to try out and fail again and again and again. They even wasted 3 years of game development on a system, that in the end didn´t work:

http://gametyrant.com/news/ultima-o...loping-systems-that-were-destroyed-by-players
.
As I said, there were tons of big companies that tried to develop a successful traditional MMO that was able to sustain.
Most of them failed.

Some people though try to innovate and do something new. Most of them failed.
Darkfall for example. They failed.

There was also a guild in Mortal, that was annoyed by the speed and way of Mortal´s development and they decided to make a MMO themselves:

http://cliqist.com/2016/03/02/embers-caerus-46k-kickstarter-cash-smoldered-existence/

Guess what happened.

There are countless of other examples.

I know you are angry at Star Vault, but try to look at things from their perspective. They are kind of the Elon Musk of video game development. They created an open world sandbox MMO with real time combat with a small team. That is basically impossible and they still did it.

There is another angle I would like you to look at.
For something to be created, it needs two things. Somebody who is able to create it and somebody who is willing to do it.When somebody has created something, therefore he must have been able to do it and been willing to do so. In that sense, the people at Star Vault have been the only humans on this entire planet, that were able and willing to create a MMO like this.
If there would have been others, that were able and willing to do it, they would have logically done it already, since they were willing to do it and able. Therefore, they are the best team for that endevour in the entire world, so far.

As much as you blame them for their mitakes, consider - they had the virtue to try it at least and they were the only ones, so far.

We always blame people for failing, but never celebrate them for trying.

I have a deep respect for that company and that´s the reason why I started this thread and invest my time in it. I want them to become the best possible version of themselves and succeed like never before. Why? That´s the only way how we make this world a better place in general. If we just spend our time making each other smaller, instead of greater, we will never get a better world and certainly not better video games.
dont get me wrong i did support sv devs everywhere and especially on many french mmos forums where people were extremly mad and smack talking constantly SV. I was here to explain to thoses people/players many things about the game.

I spent hundreds and hundreds hours explaining to new players, helping them get hooked, spreading a positive attitude , hope and everything. So ,once you congratz them for trying, i am sorry but this is not an end in itself to try things . We don't live on adages, we give money, a lot of money when we are talking about years and years of subscription on multiples accounts. I don't give a shit about tries. What about us trying , writting billions suggestions they probably only did read 2% of this all. Shouldnt we deserve deep respect too ? I am sorry. When my dealer don't sell me the proper weight, one time ,2 time is ok. 3rd time i beat him ,because you know what, thats the only thing abusive people understand. And starvault have been abusive. They lied and did false promesses to keep their players, they fed us with hope they already knew were desilusion, yet they did not blink an eye about the many disapointements.

Look ,i mean trully look at henrik when the guy stream. look the personality, the kind of guy he's. He don't give a shit about the game, he barely understand what's going on. Seb is ,or at least was passionate. Henrik is a leader, a bad leader, an entreprise boss, a piece of trash thinking about money first, and everything is showing this .Look at mortal royale, look at MO2 announcement. I don't know how long you have been following MO developpement, i am since now 9 years. I have knowledge about game developpement, networks and such, i know what could have been possible and what not.

I know what to thank SV for , the amazing times i had , the dream they created and shared with all of us, the people i met in MO especially thoses who becames in real life friends after that.

I also know why i am saying this all, why i would give them a proper fuck you and all this .As much as we can be thankfull with valid reasons, we also have many, many many many reasons to tell them to fuck off, and hate a lot of what they doing ,or how unprofesional they act.
Thats ok to want money from people , thats the basics of working for a living. Now, you need to be honnest when you do this. SV is not.
They dodged every interesting ideas people made to lower the subscription ( even if it meants they would have more players over time and finally win this trade of) they just decided to don't give a shit,follow the same road. Look on the forum, when you want to ask them some stuff, they conveniently dodge most the "hard" questions, they like to leave us in shadow, why do you think ?

Personally im just a random veteran within many others. I don't always blame people,i give people chances, there is a very long way of events, years of event, for me to speak with as much salt. You are right i give a shit about this game. Props to you for spending so much time (and teaching me stuff with stadia, i have read all your post ) but please, realise we ,players ,are more interested about your posts than starvault. Realise this. Sorry but thats true. They don't deserve your knowledge or your time. they not gonna use all your fantastics ideas.
 
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Thread starter #49

Wollkneul

Junior Member
And even if Star Vault doesn't even apply for Stadia and doesn't care, maybe somebody on this Forum or from a Google search will read it and be inspired. It's never completly useless to try making things better.
 

Keurk

Senior Member
And even if Star Vault doesn't even apply for Stadia and doesn't care, maybe somebody on this Forum or from a Google search will read it and be inspired. It's never completly useless to try making things better.
true. Again, i want to express my disapointement, but i do not want to kill any hope or faith you can have in whatever you get hooked with. You gave valuable infos about stadia and tought stuffs. It is up to any of us,including SV,to assimilate and use suchs infos. Knowledge is power,thats it. <3
if anything, i wish to have any hope with mo or sv, im jealous of people still believing in MO.
 
Thread starter #51

Wollkneul

Junior Member
Star link would about half the RTT (round trip time. The time a signal needs to reach a destination, gets processed and come back) for Singapore - London. You should have a similar result for Australia.

 
Thread starter #52

Wollkneul

Junior Member
I updated my original post with all the information, that is scattered in this thread.
So somebody who finds this thread doesn´t necessarily have to read all of it to get the idea
 
Thread starter #53

Wollkneul

Junior Member
Google starts basically owning the internet. This supports my point regarding low latency for Stadia.

"Google will own 10,433 miles of submarine cables internationally when the Curie cable is completed later this year.

The total shoots up to 63,605 miles when you include cables it owns in consortium with Facebook, Microsoft, and Amazon. Including these part-owned cables, the company has enough submarine infrastructure to wrap around the earth’s equator two-and-a-half times (with thousands of cable miles to spare)."

https://venturebeat.com/2019/04/06/...g-up-the-most-important-part-of-the-internet/
 
Thread starter #54

Wollkneul

Junior Member
Stadia is coming this November

"People will have to buy a special subscription bundle if they want to play this year: The $129.99 Founder's Edition will include a Stadia controller, a Chromecast dongle, three months of a Stadia streaming subscription, and a free pass so a friend can also play for three months. The company is taking pre-orders for the Founder's Edition now.
Stadia will launch in 14 countries in November, including the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Germany, Sweden, France, and Italy. Google plans to expand it to more countries next year.

Next year, Google will release a regular streaming subscription called Stadia Pro, which will cost $9.99 a month and include access to 31 games and counting, including Destiny 2, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Borderlands 3, and Rage 2.
It will also offer a free-to-play version of Stadia, with a lower resolution. People have to pay for the titles they want."

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/06/tech/google-stadia-release-date/index.html
 
I’ll only consider the free-to-play version, no way I’m going to pay a monthly sub just to play games which I have to pay for already.
 
Thread starter #59

Wollkneul

Junior Member
MO2 on stadia, wouldnt that also mean double subscriptions?
That's an interesting question. The sub of Stadia is to cover server costs, so SV wouldn't have to pay those. So if it would be a double sub, the sub for SV would just need to cover development costs. But yeah, anyway it would get more expansive. But hey, it's worth it
 

Azachiel

Cronite Supporter
There is no cloud, its just someone else's computer....


what benefit would it have?
I'm dependent on googles plattform. If its slow, I dont get 4k at 144fps
I get an added google ping.

yeah sounds reasonable and nice.
 
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