Nave is a big snore

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Dalacor

Senior Member
Now that the war that shall not be...well shall not be. We are back to the same old nave we love to log out of and ignore or even unsub from. Surely something is wrong with the mechanics when:

1. Sworn enemies either cant be bothered using the terrible seige mechanics to attack
2. Guilds that hold keeps, ie can get boulders, will not risk their assets to attack an enemy
3. World PVP is almost non existant unless you war dec someone or go to Kranesh

While we wait for greenlight, while we wait for TC patch(who knows when) it might be great if someone other than me starts to artificially start some events to generate pvp. I know there was a guy 6 months ago doing this and the results were amazing with large scale pvp in xmas village, MK island and some others that I didnt make. Doesnt have to be daily(could be), doesnt need to be complex. Date and time is sufficient to start PVP and if the GMs were able to award the winner a prize all the better.

Something has to give or its just not worth the $15.
 

UnicornHooves

Well-Known Member
Why Nave is boring:

1. Balance.
The balance problems of PvP have been well-documented. Dueling is boring because it's incredibly block-based, especially if your opponent is using a polesword. Armour that isn't made of metal or heavy bone is pretty much paper, and shields have crazy equipment hit radii, and pets/mounts can knock people over for 8 seconds, and NPC weapons hit for millions, and pets can be called back to the owner and speedhack back from being over-extended beyond enemy lines, etc, etc, etc.

Less talked about, the PvE, and crafting systems to make this game wonderfully fun exist, but they aren't balanced or optimised and thus don't provide a reason to use them accordingly.

Think about how hard it is to browse through the trade broker and the silly tax you need to pay, or how nobody really uses the Task thingy, or how there are a dozen dungeons in this game, but no reason to actually do most of them.

2. War isn't fun for anyone. Why? Griefing mechanics. Wars in this game aren't about keeps, they're about morale and which side can grief more effectively. Considering how many silly mechanics allow for gigantic levels of griefing (i.e. broken blacklists and the zero-risk situation for naked blue mages), these wars quickly become tedious wars of attrition. The wars start up with a flare and big ole zerg-on-zerg, then slowly deteriorate as more and more members from both sides say "Who gives a fuck" and get tired of being griefed and having to haul boulders for hours on end and stay awake in anticipation of ninja sieges. Activity dwindles until one side has an inkling more ambition and sieges the keep of the other. The other usually rises up again from the ashes (unless they are a guild consisting of mostly newer players and don't have an established core...then they just dissipate and most quit the game forever). Wars don't lead to more long-term activity.

3. Most world PvP these days is mounted PvP. There are no benefits for being on foot when going out for world PvP. To roam about, you're forced to travel several stretches of open terrain. In this open terrain, your foot group can be easily destroyed by a similarly sized mounted group due to knockdowns and imba MC damage. Whereas mounted groups can simply disengage if the foot group goes into the mountains, the foot group cannot disengage when roaming through the open, and there is virtually 0 risk for the mounted folk. That sounds like a ripe and deliciously balanced and engaging platform for PvP, yes?

4. Towns are the only near-guaranteed PvP these days, and the fact that the guards follow further from town and you cannot heal a player that has been guarded (or else your mage is as good as dead), causes PvP groups to keep a greater distance from town. I'm not saying guards should be easier to kill or easier to escape, but if things are the way that they are, there must be an ALTERNATIVE to going to towns for PvP.

5. PvP cannot be found by spotting groups that are doing PvE. Why is this? Well, because 99% of monsters in this game can be done by 1 solo dominator with a pet. Why bring more players along if you can solo it more efficiently? Thus, if your group rolls up to a PvE spot, they won't find an enemy group who springs to the defence, but rather they'll find a single naked blue mage and a bull molva. Fun.


The players didn't cause this. This is all structural. This is all due to poor decisions by SV.
 
Thread starter #3

Dalacor

Senior Member
Why Nave is boring:

1. Balance.
The balance problems of PvP have been well-documented. Dueling is boring because it's incredibly block-based, especially if your opponent is using a polesword. Armour that isn't made of metal or heavy bone is pretty much paper, and shields have crazy equipment hit radii, and pets/mounts can knock people over for 8 seconds, and NPC weapons hit for millions, and pets can be called back to the owner and speedhack back from being over-extended beyond enemy lines, etc, etc, etc.

Less talked about, the PvE, and crafting systems to make this game wonderfully fun exist, but they aren't balanced or optimised and thus don't provide a reason to use them accordingly.

Think about how hard it is to browse through the trade broker and the silly tax you need to pay, or how nobody really uses the Task thingy, or how there are a dozen dungeons in this game, but no reason to actually do most of them.

2. War isn't fun for anyone. Why? Griefing mechanics. Wars in this game aren't about keeps, they're about morale and which side can grief more effectively. Considering how many silly mechanics allow for gigantic levels of griefing (i.e. broken blacklists and the zero-risk situation for naked blue mages), these wars quickly become tedious wars of attrition. The wars start up with a flare and big ole zerg-on-zerg, then slowly deteriorate as more and more members from both sides say "Who gives a fuck" and get tired of being griefed and having to haul boulders for hours on end and stay awake in anticipation of ninja sieges. Activity dwindles until one side has an inkling more ambition and sieges the keep of the other. The other usually rises up again from the ashes (unless they are a guild consisting of mostly newer players and don't have an established core...then they just dissipate and most quit the game forever). Wars don't lead to more long-term activity.

3. Most world PvP these days is mounted PvP. There are no benefits for being on foot when going out for world PvP. To roam about, you're forced to travel several stretches of open terrain. In this open terrain, your foot group can be easily destroyed by a similarly sized mounted group due to knockdowns and imba MC damage. Whereas mounted groups can simply disengage if the foot group goes into the mountains, the foot group cannot disengage when roaming through the open, and there is virtually 0 risk for the mounted folk. That sounds like a ripe and deliciously balanced and engaging platform for PvP, yes?

4. Towns are the only near-guaranteed PvP these days, and the fact that the guards follow further from town and you cannot heal a player that has been guarded (or else your mage is as good as dead), causes PvP groups to keep a greater distance from town. I'm not saying guards should be easier to kill or easier to escape, but if things are the way that they are, there must be an ALTERNATIVE to going to towns for PvP.

5. PvP cannot be found by spotting groups that are doing PvE. Why is this? Well, because 99% of monsters in this game can be done by 1 solo dominator with a pet. Why bring more players along if you can solo it more efficiently? Thus, if your group rolls up to a PvE spot, they won't find an enemy group who springs to the defence, but rather they'll find a single naked blue mage and a bull molva. Fun.


The players didn't cause this. This is all structural. This is all due to poor decisions by SV.
Thats substantially more indepth than any of my similar posts and I really find it hard to think of a single point I disagree with. Great post and everyone who reads it should mark it winner then send a link to Henrik. This game started life as a buggy gem in the rough, over 3.5 years its been turned into a buggy gem that has so many broken balance and game mechanics that its almost unplayable. Sad. I remember 1.5 years ago the game was much better. Makes me very sad as people like myself and Hooves love Mortal, but we love the mortal from the past or the mortal of our dreams.
 
Thread starter #5

Dalacor

Senior Member
Why was this "war" called off?
Involved guilds were worried about their assets and nobody could be bothered with all the hassle that is a seige against a guild filled with naked fat mages and OP pets. Pretty much what Hooves said. So most of the people involved went back to playing other games like Smite and GTA, stuff that is fun.
 

MolagAmur

Well-Known Member
Involved guilds were worried about their assets and nobody could be bothered with all the hassle that is a seige against a guild filled with naked fat mages and OP pets. Pretty much what Hooves said. So most of the people involved went back to playing other games like Smite and GTA, stuff that is fun.

I didnt read what Hooves said. Thx for summing it up!
 

Aezreal

Arena Champion
who disagreed with your post hooves. He should be shot.
 

Dhan

Honored Member
While I agree with your post hooves I think the title should've been "why nave is boring for me" or "why nave is boring for a veteran". Regardless, the game is in a shitty state and it isn't fun enough to keep people for long periods of time, unfortunately I don't think SV can/will do anything about most of what you listed. Maybe tc might fix the main issues, maybe it won't. Lets hope we are still around to see it.
 
I am impressed Hooves, very good summary of the problems currently in the game, Im sure there are plenty more things but those are some of the main ones.
 

Gopsje

Gold Supporter
One would almost say that they would need a different/new/extra game designer....
 
Seems to me like the OP complains about the players, the option to preform a siege is there as it always has (and it has been done before obv), if anything its easier nowdays thanks to molvas, you can transport more boulders at a time.
I dont see how making siege mechanics easier is a cure for lazy guilds as in this case.
If the guild dont wanna run boulders then they dont have to, if OP wanna siege someone maybe he should do it...
 

Cearbhall

Exalted Member
Seems to me like the OP complains about the players, the option to preform a siege is there as it always has (and it has been done before obv), if anything its easier nowdays thanks to molvas, you can transport more boulders at a time.
I dont see how making siege mechanics easier is a cure for lazy guilds as in this case.
If the guild dont wanna run boulders then they dont have to, if OP wanna siege someone maybe he should do it...
agree sounds like he wants a zerg to zerg a zerg o_O
Running boulders are made alot easier especially with 100 points in all pet associated skills.
I remeber I was riding a bull molva with 20+ plus boulders plus 4 jotuns following me with 15+ each boulders back at KotO vs EVIL siege you were only able to have one horse unless you are RLC *cough*Cough* ;)
So it is alot easier but still alot of leadership needed
P.s I can't remeber the exact boulder holdage but it 5 times easier then before
 

Maximiliuss

Well-Known Member
Now its just a molva worth. And maybe a donkey too. I changed some plans for preparations of that siege. But it does take a large group to do the job.
 

Trystram

<font color=#570054><b>The Riddler</b></font>
Why Nave is boring:

1. Balance.
The balance problems of PvP have been well-documented. Dueling is boring because it's incredibly block-based, especially if your opponent is using a polesword. Armour that isn't made of metal or heavy bone is pretty much paper, and shields have crazy equipment hit radii, and pets/mounts can knock people over for 8 seconds, and NPC weapons hit for millions, and pets can be called back to the owner and speedhack back from being over-extended beyond enemy lines, etc, etc, etc.

Less talked about, the PvE, and crafting systems to make this game wonderfully fun exist, but they aren't balanced or optimised and thus don't provide a reason to use them accordingly.

Think about how hard it is to browse through the trade broker and the silly tax you need to pay, or how nobody really uses the Task thingy, or how there are a dozen dungeons in this game, but no reason to actually do most of them.

2. War isn't fun for anyone. Why? Griefing mechanics. Wars in this game aren't about keeps, they're about morale and which side can grief more effectively. Considering how many silly mechanics allow for gigantic levels of griefing (i.e. broken blacklists and the zero-risk situation for naked blue mages), these wars quickly become tedious wars of attrition. The wars start up with a flare and big ole zerg-on-zerg, then slowly deteriorate as more and more members from both sides say "Who gives a fuck" and get tired of being griefed and having to haul boulders for hours on end and stay awake in anticipation of ninja sieges. Activity dwindles until one side has an inkling more ambition and sieges the keep of the other. The other usually rises up again from the ashes (unless they are a guild consisting of mostly newer players and don't have an established core...then they just dissipate and most quit the game forever). Wars don't lead to more long-term activity.

3. Most world PvP these days is mounted PvP. There are no benefits for being on foot when going out for world PvP. To roam about, you're forced to travel several stretches of open terrain. In this open terrain, your foot group can be easily destroyed by a similarly sized mounted group due to knockdowns and imba MC damage. Whereas mounted groups can simply disengage if the foot group goes into the mountains, the foot group cannot disengage when roaming through the open, and there is virtually 0 risk for the mounted folk. That sounds like a ripe and deliciously balanced and engaging platform for PvP, yes?

4. Towns are the only near-guaranteed PvP these days, and the fact that the guards follow further from town and you cannot heal a player that has been guarded (or else your mage is as good as dead), causes PvP groups to keep a greater distance from town. I'm not saying guards should be easier to kill or easier to escape, but if things are the way that they are, there must be an ALTERNATIVE to going to towns for PvP.

5. PvP cannot be found by spotting groups that are doing PvE. Why is this? Well, because 99% of monsters in this game can be done by 1 solo dominator with a pet. Why bring more players along if you can solo it more efficiently? Thus, if your group rolls up to a PvE spot, they won't find an enemy group who springs to the defence, but rather they'll find a single naked blue mage and a bull molva. Fun.


The players didn't cause this. This is all structural. This is all due to poor decisions by SV.

I was gonna sub again but I think I'll just wait now.
 
I vote we setup some pvp of our own rather than this tit for tat "you mad bro" shit.

Let's get some fights like we had at CC a few nights back organized for the enjoyment - no sieging need be involved.

Hell, I'll even gear up both sides before we go in.
 

AidanKyros

Well-Known Member
When ever i go out for PVP i always end up at a town. And guards are silly....

I haven't seen a group farming in a long time.... :(

Iunno why they keep implementing features that support staying in town or going out solo to farm.
Other then PvP you can pretty much do everything else solo...
 
Yup. Hooves post pretty much says how the Game is at this time.

I really hope the TC patch fixes alot of it.. But I personally dont think SV will fix much in one patch, also god only know when this patch comes out.

I also want to add, I know people that sub after reading the post about a war. But next day whatever.
Guess SV got there money, and most likely the people that sub for that war and found out its not going to happen are playing others games now.
 
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