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Strilan

Exalted Member
Don't be silly. We of course don't "refuse to do anything".

It's just that, first of all, opinions voiced in balance discussions on the forum aren't necessarily always a 1-to-1 representation of the overall majority of player experiences. Second, balance is partly subjective, and partly skill based, which means an objectively perfect balance is pretty much unattainable. Finally, nobody wants us to have to change things back and forth all the time. For all of these reasons, we want to (at least try our best to) make careful and carefully considered changes when it comes to balance.

Any news on why my icons are so small?
 

realnaste

Honored Member
How? There really isn't that much to do besides PvP, people will realise this and simply leave regardless, because of lack of good PvP or lack of things to do besides PvP.

Also, even if they add a tonne of 'professions' and other things to do besides PvP, let's be completely realistic with ourselves. If PvP was so uninteresting for players and something to avoid, how come games like Counter Strike is much more popular than any of the simulator games?

Almost all games that features zero killing of other players is actually not that popular. Only game I can think of is Minecraft, except that you can actually kill others in that game aswell, come to think of it.
You just compared a game where you progress and accumulate resources over a long period of time to a shooter.
Well done. A+ in understanding gameplay mechanics and how they influence our approach to games.
 

Dhan

Honored Member
No, but there should be priorities.
IMHO things that are affecting most or plainly bugged (GUI, floating items, items not working, unnecessarily harsh beginnings) and when fixed can be considered as objectively fixed should take priority over subjective and debatable things such as pvp balance.
Balancing fighting is a loooong process that requires debates and hours of testing that SV at the moment has no time nor resources to focus on properly with steam release approaching fast.
Furthermore do not forget pvp will have major additions that will most probably screw the balance yet again making any major work on it now waste of time in the future.
Just my 2 cents.
Balancing fighting has almost no impact on fixing broken code/UI. There's no reason the two can't be done at the same time.
You just compared a game where you progress and accumulate resources over a long period of time to a shooter.

Well done. A+ in understanding gameplay mechanics and how they influence our approach to games.
And you just misinterpreted his point. Well done, A+ reading comprehension.
 

realnaste

Honored Member
Balancing fighting has almost no impact on fixing broken code/UI. There's no reason the two can't be done at the same time.

And you just misinterpreted his point. Well done, A+ reading comprehension.
Depends on what Henrik is doing I guess.
You are assuming that someone is doing absolutely nothing and he might as well start balancing shit.
 
Seb said it himself. It was an unintended side effect of the code, i.e. a bug. Whether they liked it and decided to keep it is a different story. And I do have balance skill, but it doesn't make it go away like you said; it only mitigates sprint breaks slightly.

I admit I was wrong earlier about Starvault not doing a blunder by deliberately nerfing footspeed in the name of bug free game.

But there is no way that they can be that horribly inconsistent that they fix bugs without any regards to how it will actually affect the game and at the same time leave bugs in because it is conveniant.

I'm sure Starvault will explain how it actually is. We know they are reading the thread.
 

realnaste

Honored Member
And you just misinterpreted his point. Well done, A+ reading comprehension.
He started it. I never said pvp is not interesting or to be avoided.
But please- explain his point, as I still don't get it.
CS is totally irrelevant here as is Guitar Hero or Candy Crush.
 
I think people got it the other way round, balance should be a ongoing struggle while they take their time with stuff like economy etc because they have a more lasting impact on the game.

We still at the same stage we was basically nearly two years ago now because balance changes happen not fast enough, we vets just kinda lose interest and eventually just give up and now i'm at that stage where only hope keeps me popping in.
 

realnaste

Honored Member
Henrik doesn't really code or fix UI, so that's not the limiting factor there.
He did the capes i believe? I have no idea what he is up to now, hence I said "depends on what he is doing".
 
I admit I was wrong earlier about Starvault not doing a blunder by deliberately nerfing footspeed in the name of bug free game.

But there is no way that they can be that horribly inconsistent that they fix bugs without any regards to how it will actually affect the game and at the same time leave bugs in because it is conveniant.

I'm sure Starvault will explain how it actually is. We know they are reading the thread.

They seem to be looking into keeping sprint breaks, as Herius just posted a poll on nerfing stam cost of sprint...
 

Hodo

Senior Member
How? There really isn't that much to do besides PvP, people will realise this and simply leave regardless, because of lack of good PvP or lack of things to do besides PvP.

Also, even if they add a tonne of 'professions' and other things to do besides PvP, let's be completely realistic with ourselves. If PvP was so uninteresting for players and something to avoid, how come games like Counter Strike is much more popular than any of the simulator games?

Almost all games that features zero killing of other players is actually not that popular. Only game I can think of is Minecraft, except that you can actually kill others in that game aswell, come to think of it.
It isnt that PvP is boring, it is that is ALL there is. There is no reason to PvP. While TC was supposed to fix that, it didn't really do that, it just half handedly attempted to fix this problem. But limiting resources like in Sarducaa it would start to create conflict as people start to fight over resources. Right now why would anyone fight other than over the he said she said bull crap. Myrland has it all so why fight over anything.

If I were SV I would go and start removing resources from parts of Myrland to force the economy to move, and thus start conflict as people start having to go places to get things they need.
 
It isnt that PvP is boring, it is that is ALL there is. There is no reason to PvP. While TC was supposed to fix that, it didn't really do that, it just half handedly attempted to fix this problem. But limiting resources like in Sarducaa it would start to create conflict as people start to fight over resources. Right now why would anyone fight other than over the he said she said bull crap. Myrland has it all so why fight over anything.

If I were SV I would go and start removing resources from parts of Myrland to force the economy to move, and thus start conflict as people start having to go places to get things they need.

No your wrong, as a vet pvper, I solely played for pvp and would have liked to continuing taking part in TC and regional conclict over resources (which has its own issues, like pens etc, no capurable shit etc and limited tc participation) and lets not even go into sieging itself, because sieges themselves are half the issue TC is not the shit, the system is there now, we got the building materials and tools, we just need them to fix up the sieges, make them fun, have some more elements and allow people to take part in TC aside from the special limited few who own keep spots. truly PVP has gone downhill for years, half the reason was mounts, half the reason was some other changes, big killer was sprint breaks which kinda destroyed hybrid gameplay and now the core vet pvp base has basically died because we all moved on.

The new continent is questionable, it really depends on what SV focuses on but if you want to know what I think, most of the vet base would like to see existing features fleshed out more which is our main complaint. The AI and the new creatures was a great PVE move, it really helped but the issue is that when you compare it to myland, it kinda obsolete.

If sarducca came first then myland, people would refer to myland as easy money maker, economy destoryer, noob island etc and there would be massive uproar.
 
He started it. I never said pvp is not interesting or to be avoided.
But please- explain his point, as I still don't get it.
CS is totally irrelevant here as is Guitar Hero or Candy Crush.

Started what exactly?

My post started with 'How?'. How are we keeping new players playing if they are leaving regardless because of lack of engaging game content?

My point of comparing Counter Strike to Simulator games was pretty straight forward. People, in general, prefer to play games to compete with each other. PvP is a form of competition, regardless of it's form. People, in general, will prefer PvP over non-combat activities.

"Finally good choices by SV. Instead of running around in circles with the loud crowd..."

How is it a good choice to completely neglect or, unbelievebly, make things worse in the field that will, probably, draw in the most crowd?

As was mentioned earlier, there is no reason you can't balancing and tweaks regarding PvP while at the same time add non-combatant content to the game. The game IS lacking in non-combant content, no doubt, and they need to remedy that.
 

realnaste

Honored Member
Started what exactly?

My post started with 'How?'. How are we keeping new players playing if they are leaving regardless because of lack of engaging game content?

My point of comparing Counter Strike to Simulator games was pretty straight forward. People, in general, prefer to play games to compete with each other. PvP is a form of competition, regardless of it's form. People, in general, will prefer PvP over non-combat activities.

"Finally good choices by SV. Instead of running around in circles with the loud crowd..."

How is it a good choice to completely neglect or, unbelievebly, make things worse in the field that will, probably, draw in the most crowd?

As was mentioned earlier, there is no reason you can't balancing and tweaks regarding PvP while at the same time add non-combatant content to the game. The game IS lacking in non-combant content, no doubt, and they need to remedy that.
Most people do not play to be competitive (or at least not in a traditional pvp sense of the word). WOW has a following as well (even after all these years). Most people that play open pvp games- maybe, but I can't get into this now as most probably I will be dragged out of my cave soon (BTW sorry if stuff I write today is not all nicely laid out and thought through, but I'm kinda rushing to get my points across and eat and do other shit before I leave). CS is as valid here as candy crush. MO is it's own thing and has it's own challenges with it's own resolutions. Pointless comparison is pointless.
Finally- pvp is not the only form of combat so let's not put an equals sign between. Even if some might say it's the most rewarding it is only subjective opinions.

PS. I'm willing to bet that most people do not leave due to balance.
 

Strilan

Exalted Member
I'm honestly not quite sure what you're referring to...

I removed a setting called "Scale windows to screen" (not icons) because from my investigation it seemed to have no useful effect. While it is quite possible that I missed something due to the fact that the UI code is unfortunately obscure and hard to debug (I'm still sorting things out after my saving system rebuild and there are still a lot more ui fixes coming in the next patch!), I have not noticed any issues with any icon scaling since I removed this.

Can you please describe in more detail exactly what the issue is?
When you say "icons" and "buttons", do you just mean your hotbars or are you including other UI elements in that as well?
Do you mean that your hotbar buttons become too small when you run at a very low resolution / window size?
Or do you mean that your buttons remain small instead of scaling up when you run at a very high resolution?

Thanks~
And sorry for the inconvenience.

HALP!
 

MolagAmur

Well-Known Member
Still no pvp balance. My God they don't give two shits about that. I don't even know what to say...

Isnt Herius the balance guy? What the fuck has he been doing for the past 6 months.
 
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