Proposed change to butchery

Do you support this change?

  • Yes

    Votes: 229 78.7%
  • No

    Votes: 62 21.3%

  • Total voters
    291
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Gopsje

Gold Supporter
What will be the weight of said items Herius?
Cause if that is anything near just 1.0 then nobody will take the carcasses to begin with. People will not move and the item and the carcass as long as there is a great difference between the weights or the price.

I think everyone can be for expanding the system that already is there in sarducaa (basicly every mob has a money making one attached to it). But this was supposed to be (looking at the title) a change to butchery. And there is no change to butchery. So people suggest a change to skinning :)

Though I must say letting the leathers and scales be worth the most sounds great. This would mean that there would be both trade and selling stuff to vendors. Without new items and with skinning I'd have to stay longer in the field. I don't see why one would not go for skinning.
 

eldrath

Well-Known Member
I hope you see that this skinning idea contradicts exactly what was said to be the biggest drawbacks to the idea presented by me.

For example: Quite a few said no one would loot carcasses and only go for the gold items.

With skinning, it would be the same but worse.
Skinning would let you get leather and scales from the carcasses that then could be sold to vendors, this would lead to carcasses being destroyed to only get the quick gold making materials.
Leaving nothing left for the butchers except some bones, meat and dental materials.

So I dont see how this would be so much better than my "idiotic" idea? ;)
Your idea requires new items that are very limited in use to be added to the game, they have no other purpose than being sold for gold. They are one-dimentional.

Skinning on the other hand can be tied into a multitude of crafting-systems as well as gold generation. It has the potential to serve as a tool for new players and veterans a like, providing them with a CHOICE when looking at the carcass.

Not to mention that if you would put your mind to it you can see that there is a lot of potential to skinning compared to gold-item drops for every animal. You can adjust the prices of useless materials on vendors to create animals that are worthwhile to be skinned for gold. You can adjust the value of other materials like ironbone to make the more worthwhile to be butchered. If at a later date you introduce leather crafting (bags, saddles etc) choices will be more prominent in the gold vs material decision.

There are many many options available to you when you look at skinning, vendor prices and butchery. All with the system you already have in place, which would need tweaking and work for sure to archive something. But since this idea doesn´t come for free either it´s probably equal in that regard.

One thing that skinning does not (again) is provide any sort of balance to TC since it is universal rather than focused and one-dimentional. You would have to address the TC problem with a seperate solution. Two solutions for two problems - instead of a half-solution for both.
 
Thread starter #343

Herius

Quality Assurance Lead
What will be the weight of said items Herius?
Cause if that is anything near just 1.0 then nobody will take the carcasses to begin with. People will not move and the item and the carcass as long as there is a great difference between the weights or the price.

I think everyone can be for expanding the system that already is there in sarducaa (basicly every mob has a money making one attached to it). But this was supposed to be (looking at the title) a change to butchery. And there is no change to butchery. So people suggest a change to skinning :)

Though I must say letting the leathers and scales be worth the most sounds great. This would mean that there would be both trade and selling stuff to vendors. Without new items and with skinning I'd have to stay longer in the field. I don't see why one would not go for skinning.
Yes, i guess a better title for the thread would be changes to carcass resource value or something.
But yes, the item weight will be calculated from the carcass weight needed to produce the value of the item, so the weight will scale.
 
Yes, i guess a better title for the thread would be changes to carcass resource value or something.
But yes, the item weight will be calculated from the carcass weight needed to produce the value of the item, so the weight will scale.
So this means low value high volume carc will not be farmable on foot i am assuming? Interesting

The more i look at this change the more i see the overwhelming issues Mines and Breeding pens. If these Are not fixed i see it severely damaging the economy for the next 5 years similarly how we are seeing fishing macro effects today. Steel is already too available it has caused the animal material market to more or less collapse aside from important backing materials.

Star Vault is taking short term approaches to a game that needs long term vision. I have officially changed my vote to NO as i think the sarducca approach to mob loot is much better than the proposed one.

My advise to you StarVault is to look at every mob in the game. Take in to account their position on the map difficulty and size of its spawns and revalue all their carc then add items like sarducca that can be sold to vendors.

Examples:
Too Difficult for current Value: Cultist/Dall Roba/Sidioian warriors/Thursar warriors, Golden Danaburnu Elementals, Magnetons(If the heads need to be vendorable to everyone, Nitre Guardians.

Well Priced For current Value: Akreps(But they all need the charge the black ones were given), Danaburnu, Cultist dungeon mini bosses, Dall Roba Leaders, Ratzar Aletz/Hunters/Queen

Too easy for current Value: Shore Prowler, Crocodile, KURNAS(These are the stand outs way too easy for MAs to cheese these, need a redesign), Campodons, Ratzar Worker, Scarlet Tektons.


Edit: Also add weight to the "Head" Items dropped from mobs, they are currently not heavy enough.
 
Thread starter #345

Herius

Quality Assurance Lead
Star Vault is taking short term approaches to a game that needs long term vision. I have officially changed my vote to NO as i think the sarducca approach to mob loot is much better than the proposed one.
This is... what the proposal is all about, this is what we are doing, making Myrland mobs as on Sarducaa.
But as the mobs on Myrland already have their value and economics set since long ago, and that most Myrland mob is tameable and can be put in breeding pens we just don't want to bump their already existing value with XX silver, and therefor the proposal was about shifting 50% of the carcass value to an item value.
 

Dhan

Honored Member
So this means low value high volume carc will not be farmable on foot i am assuming? Interesting...
I wouldn't say not farmable on foot. I'd say more along the lines of less desirable, which is not a bad thing.
 

Hertix

Well-Known Member
I would rather have a direct drop item that weighs less and in return is worth less. A better trade-off would be accessibility (not requiring a mount) in return for spending more time in the field (you need to collect more of them). In any case, this is something that needs to be introduced and balanced on a case-by-case basis.

Example: Wolves now drop Large Fang. Large fang weighs 1 weight and sells for 30 silver. killing 20 wolves (taking roughly 10-15 minutes, including finding the spawns and travel) nets you 6 gold. Staying out for 30 minutes can net you 12 gold (40 wolves) and you can still farm without making repeated trips to town (more time fighting less time hauling).

Example2: Campodons now drop Large Tusk. Large tusk weighs 5 weight and sells for 3 gold. Finding and killing 12 campodons and bringing the tusk back to town is doable on foot (the travel would take forever) for 36 direct gold.

With the increased activity at spawn ponts and many more players actively looking to farm the risk to stay out and fill horse bags is great, but not too overpowered. Reds will be actively looking for players with a horse at mobs spawns, which brings back that fear I used to feel while farming pre-butchery.

Yes Breeding grounds still need to be looked at.

In regards to mob carcass being wasted: mob carcass is already wasted in that 90% of fighters don't bother killing mobs unless they are specifically farming a material. Carcass worth is supposed to be about the worth of the material to players in crafting, which should be improved upon, but the argument that this makes carcass "worthless" is shortsighted. This even opens the door for roaming scavenger parties to "clean up" spawn points loot bags and grab loads of carcass (materials) and all kinds of player interaction that just doesn't happen currently.
 
Making items more like bandit heads like hertix suggested sounds easier and better in my opinion. In my opinion redesigning mobs in myrland to be like sarduccan mobs in both difficulty and loot is a better idea then trying to add a fix to still allow breeding pens.
 

Midkemma

Senior Member
I think this thread has highlighted the TC issue over butchery.

Balance TC and then look at balancing the gold creation within this game.
 

Midkemma

Senior Member
I would rather have a direct drop item that weighs less and in return is worth less. A better trade-off would be accessibility (not requiring a mount) in return for spending more time in the field (you need to collect more of them). In any case, this is something that needs to be introduced and balanced on a case-by-case basis.

Example: Wolves now drop Large Fang. Large fang weighs 1 weight and sells for 30 silver. killing 20 wolves (taking roughly 10-15 minutes, including finding the spawns and travel) nets you 6 gold. Staying out for 30 minutes can net you 12 gold (40 wolves) and you can still farm without making repeated trips to town (more time fighting less time hauling).

Example2: Campodons now drop Large Tusk. Large tusk weighs 5 weight and sells for 3 gold. Finding and killing 12 campodons and bringing the tusk back to town is doable on foot (the travel would take forever) for 36 direct gold.

With the increased activity at spawn ponts and many more players actively looking to farm the risk to stay out and fill horse bags is great, but not too overpowered. Reds will be actively looking for players with a horse at mobs spawns, which brings back that fear I used to feel while farming pre-butchery.

Yes Breeding grounds still need to be looked at.

In regards to mob carcass being wasted: mob carcass is already wasted in that 90% of fighters don't bother killing mobs unless they are specifically farming a material. Carcass worth is supposed to be about the worth of the material to players in crafting, which should be improved upon, but the argument that this makes carcass "worthless" is shortsighted. This even opens the door for roaming scavenger parties to "clean up" spawn points loot bags and grab loads of carcass (materials) and all kinds of player interaction that just doesn't happen currently.

Translation:

Fighters MUST be able to make gold directly from mobs, they shouldn't have to interact with other players!
I will now give examples on a fighter... fighter fighter fighter fighter... fighter fighter oh and last but not least footfighting!

Dude needs to get something in his head.

Gathering is open to all characters.
Why give away wolf fangs when they can be EXTRACTED and then sold? No objection to having wolf fangs or what-ever fantasy bloody item you wanna pick, how about making it fit in with the rest of the game? EXTRACT THE MOTHER FUCKING ITEM.

Oh I know why you didn't say that...

Fighter fighter fighter! FootfighterBoost!

As for 90% of fighters leave the carcass... do you mean 90% of players who are roaming looking for PvP?
Or do you mean PvE Fighters who collect those damn carcasses as it is what they are doing!

"but roaming scavenger parties..."
Yeah... so why don't they already happen going from town to town and collecting undead carcasses?

Really.... If that is your level of intelligence, I think I'll avoid your posts in future, gives me headaches to read sucjh stupidity.
 
In regards to foot toons, i would like to in the future see dungeons be the best places for foot to farm. This would require tighter dungeons with better rewards throughout. the majority of open plain mobs need to be designed with mounted in mind. My personal favorite thing i have seen in sarducca is how they designed the Hunter and aliet Ratzar both are similar in value and difficulty but require completely different tactics. The risar dungeon and sewers are good examples of dungeons mounted can't work with. Sewers being a personal favorite
 

cheaptrix

Cronite Supporter
I agree and disagree with this change. That being said I haven't been able to sit down and read through all 18 pages.

If you are to cut the butchered sell rate to half, a prower is 2 gold per stack - 50% you are left with 1 gold in which was just spent to create the buy order to be able to employ others to gather the carcass for you. So essential the only thing worth anything is the instant drop that would be worth 1 gold. While this would mean more player interaction due to the need of selling stacks of plate scale in order to cover the time and money loss. There is only so many stacks of plate scale one needs before the market becomes over flooded to the point you have to shelf the butcher for a few months. The solution would have to be an increase in material used to make armor so that the flow of supply and demand exists.

Also if the butchering yield costs are dropped does this mean the extracting time will be cut by 50% as well? Or am I expected to sit in front of a table with two butchers for 5 hours straight just to make up for the 50% cost decrease I'll be seeing? Are we expecting to see a 5th character slot because this would mean were up to what 4 paid account now in order to remain efficient?

While I'm on my rant... might as well throw automatic butchers in the game because I have yet to hear of a nerf to the miners raking in material for players.

Edit: if the goal here is player interaction and the need to get out and transport items. Then make animals drop pre-butchered mats. Use the food vendor to accept only meats, the bone vendor to accept bone materials. So on andoing so on.

Cut the sales price back on all armor craftable backings and primaries so it's more efficient to find buyers or take a cut and sell them to appropriate vendors.

Raise the purchase price of a few vendors and the daily tax rate they cost so most small villages won't push to get them or only able to get one or two but not all the vendors needed to fully sell off their hunts and allow guilds that can afford to run open player made villages be able to purchase and maintain said vendors. This would solve a lot more problems then hurting people tied to a butcher table day in and day out
 

Hertix

Well-Known Member
Translation:

Fighters MUST be able to make gold directly from mobs, they shouldn't have to interact with other players!
I will now give examples on a fighter... fighter fighter fighter fighter... fighter fighter oh and last but not least footfighting!

Dude needs to get something in his head.

Gathering is open to all characters.
Why give away wolf fangs when they can be EXTRACTED and then sold? No objection to having wolf fangs or what-ever fantasy bloody item you wanna pick, how about making it fit in with the rest of the game? EXTRACT THE MOTHER FUCKING ITEM.

Oh I know why you didn't say that...

Fighter fighter fighter! FootfighterBoost!

As for 90% of fighters leave the carcass... do you mean 90% of players who are roaming looking for PvP?
Or do you mean PvE Fighters who collect those damn carcasses as it is what they are doing!

"but roaming scavenger parties..."
Yeah... so why don't they already happen going from town to town and collecting undead carcasses?

Really.... If that is your level of intelligence, I think I'll avoid your posts in future, gives me headaches to read sucjh stupidity.
For the 400th fucking time , extracting materials from animals is supposed to serve the purpose of getting the material out of them for crafting , not to create a mechanism for generating vendor trash.
 

Aralis

Champion of Nave
You are being inconsistent. You are objecting to straightforward gold vendortrash and looking to add in a new gold only item and somehow thinking this is a great thing?
 

cheaptrix

Cronite Supporter
If I had to blame anyone for this it would be J.G. Wentworth!
 

Midkemma

Senior Member
For the 400th fucking time , extracting materials from animals is supposed to serve the purpose of getting the material out of them for crafting , not to create a mechanism for generating vendor trash.

And the game needs money your fucking muppet.
No mechanism to get gold into the game means the gold will run out after the sincs have drained it all.

Some stuff should be vendor trash, not as much as it currently is but some stuff should be, just like fucking granum powder... or are you too damn stupid to understand how money works? Game money is more like FIAT money, go look it up!

TC needs rebalancing and then the money creation mechanism needs balancing, i dont disagree with that, this change does neither.

Now do you really want to go in circles? With your limited intelligence I do feel that is all we will fucking do, repeat over and over.

Until you learn that money needs to be created, I honestly don't see a way to continue this.

You can not get gold for selling crafted stuff to NPCs... you get it from other players.
Those other players need to get gold somehow, if not from gathering or mining or butchery then how?
Come on Einstein, how the fuck are we suppose to get gold?

"from other players" isn't a valid answer, where do they get it from? Go back to where that gold coin was created... Oh look, SELLING SHIT TO A NPC!

So say it for the 401st time, repeating bullshit doesn't make it true, repeating bullshit only influences the dumb to be misinformed.
 

cheaptrix

Cronite Supporter
Why not just completely dissolve butchers. Why not just have animals drop all it's materials and use all these extra vendors for their purpose? Would free up a character slot that would be better off for something else.
 
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