Proposed change to butchery

Do you support this change?

  • Yes

    Votes: 229 78.7%
  • No

    Votes: 62 21.3%

  • Total voters
    291
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Midkemma

Senior Member
Why not just completely dissolve butcher to the point it's not worth investing the time spent . Why not just have animals drop all it's materials and use all these extra vendors for their purpose? Would free up a character slot that would be better off for something else.

but but but :(
If this change happens then I may as well agree with you.
I actually enjoy keeping a few buy orders up for the locals, gives people something to do when they get bored and I can make a few silver per stack.
 

cheaptrix

Cronite Supporter
but but but :(
If this change happens then I may as well agree with you.
I actually enjoy keeping a few buy orders up for the locals, gives people something to do when they get bored and I can make a few silver per stack.
Likewise, but if your paying someone for their labor while adding more steps in procuring a profit on your end is it worth it in the long run? Instead kill and butcher it yourself make the full loot and then make armor sets out it for new players to run around in.

Take prower buy orders, they kill it get their instant 1 gold token, then fill your 1gold per stack order, that leaves you out with only the materials you paid 1 gold to receive and then the additional minute to aquire the material through extracting. Now you have to find someone willing to pay what your asking for a stack of the material which over time will decrease because everyone will be full up on it.

Plate scale armor sets are just a fancy set of throw away armor anyways so the value isn't as high imo. Maybe goof for a few off pieces but meh.
 

Hertix

Well-Known Member
And the game needs money your fucking muppet.
No mechanism to get gold into the game means the gold will run out after the sincs have drained it all.

Some stuff should be vendor trash, not as much as it currently is but some stuff should be, just like fucking granum powder... or are you too damn stupid to understand how money works? Game money is more like FIAT money, go look it up!

TC needs rebalancing and then the money creation mechanism needs balancing, i dont disagree with that, this change does neither.

Now do you really want to go in circles? With your limited intelligence I do feel that is all we will fucking do, repeat over and over.

Until you learn that money needs to be created, I honestly don't see a way to continue this.

You can not get gold for selling crafted stuff to NPCs... you get it from other players.
Those other players need to get gold somehow, if not from gathering or mining or butchery then how?
Come on Einstein, how the fuck are we suppose to get gold?

"from other players" isn't a valid answer, where do they get it from? Go back to where that gold coin was created... Oh look, SELLING SHIT TO A NPC!

So say it for the 401st time, repeating bullshit doesn't make it true, repeating bullshit only influences the dumb to be misinformed.
Even after the nerf animal materials will still vendor for more than granum powder, so what exactly is your argument here other than butchering into vendor trash must be the premier way of introducing gold into the economy? I argue going out and fighting mobs and exploring dungeons should be the premier way for gold to enter the game and that professions such as Butchery and extraction should be how you get materials in the game.

Screaming like a child and name-calling doesn't exactly get your point across.
 

Midkemma

Senior Member
Even after the nerf animal materials will still vendor for more than granum powder, so what exactly is your argument here other than butchering into vendor trash must be the premier way of introducing gold into the economy? I argue going out and fighting mobs and exploring dungeons should be the premier way for gold to enter the game and that professions such as Butchery and extraction should be how you get materials in the game.

Screaming like a child and name-calling doesn't exactly get your point across.

TC needs rebalancing and then the money creation mechanism needs balancing, i dont disagree with that, this change does neither.

Now do you really want to go in circles? With your limited intelligence I do feel that is all we will fucking do, repeat over and over.


Oh my, I already answered if you cared to fucking read.
You're arguing for items that have no fucking value apart from gold to be dropped intantly so you do not have to spend a char to play a butcher.
I am arguing for ALL CRAFTS to be able to earn gold, not to the extent butchery does ATM...

Fuck sake, here I am repeating myself to a moron, learn to fucking read!
Going in circles as i predicted.

As for name calling, meh, you're a thick shit and I am saying the truth.
 

Midkemma

Senior Member
Likewise, but if your paying someone for their labor while adding more steps in procuring a profit on your end is it worth it in the long run? Instead kill and butcher it yourself make the full loot and then make armor sets out it for new players to run around in.

Take prower buy orders, they kill it get their instant 1 gold token, then fill your 1gold per stack order, that leaves you out with only the materials you paid 1 gold to receive and then the additional minute to aquire the material through extracting. Now you have to find someone willing to pay what your asking for a stack of the material which over time will decrease because everyone will be full up on it.

Plate scale armor sets are just a fancy set of throw away armor anyways so the value isn't as high imo. Maybe goof for a few off pieces but meh.

I like to do buy orders and then hunt the animals not nearby myself and just mail it across, more money ^.^
Money which I spend buying mats of other players via buy orders or putting in buy orders to be filled.

Take away the profit and I wont bother putting up buy orders, how many butchers will? How much of a loss would this be? Personally I think it'll be a great loss as this is a RPG and not a MOBA, there needs to be roles to be played other than PvP roles... otherwise whats the point in calling this a Role Playing Game?

Not everyone has multiple chars to have a butcher so having butchers around who buy the carcasses becomes the gold that is needed for new players, not the silly item they can pick up instead of the carcasses, something which requires interaction.

I dunno... being a MUTLIPLAYER game I would think mechanisms which encourage INTERACTION be more of a priority over gameplay that requires no intereaction.

Keep butchers.
Balance TC
Balance Gold creation
Give butchery some gameplay love after gold creation has been balanced for ALL ROLES.
 
I lost faith in the MO community if they are really complaining about this change. Of course it's not going to change the Breeding grounds problem, but it is better than what we have now. You still get the same amount of money, from vending the special item and carcass mats. When i had my butcher i vendored everything because it was pointless saving it up and selling it to people, since many big guilds have butchers. I could get more gold if i vendored everything and went straight back to farming, and not have to worry about transporting.The only thing i kept was molarium, guardfur and iron silk/silk. This won't change anything to butchery, since now you will set up buy orders to get the MATERIALS you need to craft armor, which is what it should of been originally.

Think about it this way you set up a buy order for half of the price the carcass used to be, but you get the SAME amount of armor backing. So if you were to vend this to other players you will profit more than you used to before, do you morons know basic math?
 
The problem isn't butchery it is breed pens. They just need to improve humanoid loot so players who don't want to butcher have an option
 

cheaptrix

Cronite Supporter
I agree this isn't fixing breeding pens at all. Unless only wild animals will drop this golden token and breeding pen animals only drop the 50% reduced cost carcass.

What will happen is when the breeding pen farmers get enough gold and enough golden tokens saved up they will do their large mounted transport trip with half a stack of gold and half a stack of golden tokens to trade in and nothing has changed except for the players that only run 1 account with 4 pvp characters on it so they can scrap by killing some pve and get a bit of money instantly. There is no added incentives to a risk vs reward system here just an extra stack of shit someone has to move from point A to point B when the time is right.
 

Zeeraha

Well-Known Member
Well, my post was not an update about this proposal going forward or not, it was simply an attempt
to clear out some question marks, and give a better explanation in how we discussed regarding some of the questions here in the thread, so that this discussion can move forward.

Would it be a good idea to exclude artifacts from bred animals? This way it would be half-less profitable to stay behind walls to make money out of butchered mats from bred mobs. Also, if they wish extra gold, they can got o wilderness.
 

Pantero

Well-Known Member
That's true, buy orders will be a bit screwed over but sure, use the noticeboard instead! :D
 

Midkemma

Senior Member
That's true, buy orders will be a bit screwed over but sure, use the noticeboard instead! :D

Lets just get rid of brokers and have notice boards.
 
Lets just get rid of brokers and have notice boards.

Trading carcass is boring as fuck, yeah such great interactions, with the NPC vendors :D. Its basically the same shit as mobs dropping gold tokens, only that theres a middle man between you and the NPC. Trade should be about materials not stupid carcasses.
 
I think this changes butchers so there purpose is not to only get carcs from mail man, butcher them, vendor them and profit.

So not being able to directly make enough from vendors to put up buy orders is kind of part of it. The value in the carcass will have to come from the actual mats value to players instead. And the vendor trash will make up less of the value.

Basically a butcher will have to sell mats to players to make good money.
 

Hertix

Well-Known Member
Oh my, I already answered if you cared to fucking read.
You're arguing for items that have no fucking value apart from gold to be dropped intantly so you do not have to spend a char to play a butcher.
I am arguing for ALL CRAFTS to be able to earn gold, not to the extent butchery does ATM...

Fuck sake, here I am repeating myself to a moron, learn to fucking read!
Going in circles as i predicted.

As for name calling, meh, you're a thick shit and I am saying the truth.
What you are arguing for is that players should be required to take up a craft to make basic gold from killing mobs. This is a sandbox game , not every player wants or cares to play a crafter,
And many people see requiring an additional , monotonous , and tedious step to get basic gold (butchery as a chore rather than dynamic gameplay). In terms of dynamic game design butchery has its place in getting materials for crafting , but as it stands the primary purpose for this class isn't to get materials but to generate gold through sale of vendor trash. The vast majority of people see this as a design flaw or at least would order for it not to be this way ( look at the poll results genius ). What are your thoughts on making the unique drop not spawn from breeding pens, would that not be a generous nerf ?
 

Hertix

Well-Known Member
I think this changes butchers so there purpose is not to only get carcs from mail man, butcher them, vendor them and profit.

So not being able to directly make enough from vendors to put up buy orders is kind of part of it. The value in the carcass will have to come from the actual mats value to players instead. And the vendor trash will make up less of the value.

Basically a butcher will have to sell mats to players to make good money.
Exactly how it should be.
 

eldrath

Well-Known Member
What you are arguing for is that players should be required to take up a craft to make basic gold from killing mobs. This is a sandbox game , not every player wants or cares to play a crafter,
And many people see requiring an additional , monotonous , and tedious step to get basic gold (butchery as a chore rather than dynamic gameplay). In terms of dynamic game design butchery has its place in getting materials for crafting , but as it stands the primary purpose for this class isn't to get materials but to generate gold through sale of vendor trash. The vast majority of people see this as a design flaw or at least would order for it not to be this way ( look at the poll results genius ). What are your thoughts on making the unique drop not spawn from breeding pens, would that not be a generous nerf ?
Too generous IMO. Without raiding and climbing (aka risk) resource generation behind walls is abysmal game design.

Anyway, removing the material lore restrictions from skinning would have basically the same effect. Except bringing a bunch of random useless items and NPCs into the world. This convoluted idea aims to make farming for gold more accessible. The same can be done with skinning. Which makes to me more sense when looking at all other systems in the game.

If you wanted to be thorough you could just adjust the vendor prices of certain materials you get from skinning to make - say - quality leather something the NPC vendors like very much. With skinning unbound you have a wide array of knobs you can turn up and down with vendors prices to adjust gold generation by fighters.

Then we should face the possibility that other professions should be able to generate gold as well. Like weaponsmiths and alchemists.
 

Hertix

Well-Known Member
Too generous IMO. Without raiding and climbing (aka risk) resource generation behind walls is abysmal game design.

Anyway, removing the material lore restrictions from skinning would have basically the same effect. Except bringing a bunch of random useless items and NPCs into the world. This convoluted idea aims to make farming for gold more accessible. The same can be done with skinning. Which makes to me more sense when looking at all other systems in the game.

If you wanted to be thorough you could just adjust the vendor prices of certain materials you get from skinning to make - say - quality leather something the NPC vendors like very much. With skinning unbound you have a wide array of knobs you can turn up and down with vendors prices to adjust gold generation by fighters.

Then we should face the possibility that other professions should be able to generate gold as well. Like weaponsmiths and alchemists.
My thoughts on skinning: you immobilize your character every time you loot a stack of carcass, and you pretty much have to stand there for 30 seconds per stack, making for a pretty annoying mechanic .
Skinning doesn't change anything about breeding grounds. It could be a viable solution with the
Right changes, but so could the proposed one, as long as we are
On the same page that the current system isn't great.

In regards to making crafting profession generate gold
Similar to butchery, I think this is the wrong direction. The purpose is for players to trade
Materials to other players, not gain material as a byproduct of creating gold within the safety of a town.
 

eldrath

Well-Known Member
My thoughts on skinning: you immobilize your character every time you loot a stack of carcass, and you pretty much have to stand there for 30 seconds per stack, making for a pretty annoying mechanic .
Skinning doesn't change anything about breeding grounds. It could be a viable solution with the
Right changes, but so could the proposed one, as long as we are
On the same page that the current system isn't great.

In regards to making crafting profession generate gold
Similar to butchery, I think this is the wrong direction. The purpose is for players to trade
Materials to other players, not gain material as a byproduct of creating gold within the safety of a town.
I´ve done some skinning, it´s not too bad. You could cut down on the timer a bit probably, but the main thing is the material lores.

As Herius stated: This is not thought of as a solution to breeding grounds. With that in mind I think that skinning is just as viable as this solution. I think it is far more elegant. Vendor prices are not set in stone with butchery and skinning as well. SV could easily review them and see to it that some animals are best skinned for profit, other better butchered for profit and then there are some that give good mats but don´t sell well to NPCs.
 

cheaptrix

Cronite Supporter
4. The only thing getting undermined is the ability to make money without ever leaving your palisade.

Or what this will do is open up another revenue for Trade companies! If they leave breeding pens unscathed then all one has to do is save up his golden tokens until ready to cash them in.

Trade companies could offer a service of trade-in at face value for the golden token. Then off the top before they even come to pick it up and deliver your gold they would have to include ( hazard pay, delivery charge, trust, locations of pick ups/drop offs etc) maybe around 20% off the top.

So you trade in your 100 antenna's worth 100G they bring you 80G because you don't want to leave your walls still and will accept 80 G in return for not having to do the leg work yourself. They can now take the antenna to the town of their liking and cash it in. Very much like how they move money for you for a fee from Tindrem to Vadda or MK to Meduli, Just golden tokens now.
 

Midkemma

Senior Member
What you are arguing for is that players should be required to take up a craft to make basic gold from killing mobs. This is a sandbox game , not every player wants or cares to play a crafter,
And many people see requiring an additional , monotonous , and tedious step to get basic gold (butchery as a chore rather than dynamic gameplay). In terms of dynamic game design butchery has its place in getting materials for crafting , but as it stands the primary purpose for this class isn't to get materials but to generate gold through sale of vendor trash. The vast majority of people see this as a design flaw or at least would order for it not to be this way ( look at the poll results genius ). What are your thoughts on making the unique drop not spawn from breeding pens, would that not be a generous nerf ?

Blah blah blah.
I have stated several times what I think, your twisting shit again and why? Because the dumb fuck you are, you can't accept that I am for favour of the idea of gold creation to be rebalanced, this how-ever is seperate to TC.

Not every player wants to be a crafter, I never said that either did I? Only way you can argue is by putting words into my mouth and then claiming what you said to be wrong...

Gather can be done by fighters.
Dungeons can be done by fighters.
Killing players for their wealth can be done by fighters.
Farming mobs can be done by fighters and then sold to butchers.
Open the barrels as you roam around can be done by fighters.
Farming minos... again fighters.

Fighters can make money, it isn't hard.
Why shouldn't extractors make some?

If you care to read then you will see that I am in favor of having items not selling to NPC, this though needs to come in once other ROLES (Not just crafters so dont put words in my mouth!) have been balanced. Heck do it at same time, piece by piece...

If everyone can make little bits then we will fight each other for those little bits (either via trade or physical aggresion), people have bits of gold to spend...

Currently butchers bring in so much that they may as well be central banks who create money in RL, then those banks giving the money to bankers in a 'bailout'... Butchers get carcasses from alts and they dont have to let the gold go outside the group.

If everyone could make a bit then butchers wouldn't have the monopoly and trade will be stimulated.
Or do you think fighters should have the monopoly on money creation? It defenatly sounds that way.

EDIT: As for the bit at the end, meh, you don't understand the fundimentals so no, i don't agree with what you said.

Fundimentally I am saying EVERY profession should have a way of generating gold so the game can get gold into circulation while the sincs are removing that gold.

I agree butchery is OP.
Breeding pens have highlighted the issue but that is partially down to the TC being unbalanced.

Talk about trading gold around from player to player, I agree, have a look at my TC suggestion. It is all about transfering gold around, how-ever TC isn't like that. TC needs updating, this change may hide a crack but then SV will be 'balancing' and adding shit to make this work. Why even start down that path?
 
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