TC towers in range of guards - allowed or not ?

Should guards be usable to protect territory control towers ?

  • Sure, it's no different from other guards involvement and can be helpful

    Votes: 9 15.8%
  • Yes, for other reasons.

    Votes: 2 3.5%
  • No way, TC is a player game and not about NPCs protecting assets

    Votes: 37 64.9%
  • No, not being able to place TC towers in houses excludes extra protection

    Votes: 2 3.5%
  • No, for other reasons.

    Votes: 2 3.5%
  • You know what ? I don't care at all.

    Votes: 5 8.8%

  • Total voters
    57
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sunshiner

Well-Known Member
I can see the issue with that, but you still don't solve a problem by creating another. They should work towards making the blueblocking stop instead.
nope you dont, but i dont see a solution coming for this anytime soon
 

Dsn

Honored Member

NineOneSix

Senior Member
Except RLC blue block when the wardeccd guild take down tower, they also ninja towers at 6am-11am EU, so don't take any pity on these guys.
It should be noted that RLC are only using tactics that have been used against them in the past. If other guilds do such things and it is allowed due to game mechanics and GM policies why should RLC not be able to? As I recall a manganon had to be used to take down the last cluster of Koto towers on the doorstep of Meduli due to blueblocking and guardspams...
 
Thread starter #24

Mauzi

Status King
Friends, please keep it civil and don't turn this into a debate about past and current events.

I'd say the topic is important enough to discuss things maturely. Thank you !

And as said a few times already: Input from SV if using city guards to protect your TC towers is "intended gameplay" or not would be appreciated.

Without a word, the standard 'common sense' rule would apply, saying that "if it doesnt feel right, it isn't right". Not that SV ever followed this one in the past...
 
I have always been of the mind that as long as you are not hacking or duping, it's fine. No such animal as "exploiting". If the game mechanics allow it then it's working as intended, whether you are talking about AI pathing, tower placement, or whatever. It is incumbent on SV to "fix" or remove it from the game if it's not intended.
 

CaptainGuy

Senior Member
I have always been of the mind that as long as you are not hacking or duping, it's fine. No such animal as "exploiting". If the game mechanics allow it then it's working as intended, whether you are talking about AI pathing, tower placement, or whatever. It is incumbent on SV to "fix" or remove it from the game if it's not intended.
Perhaps that's how you feel it should be but that is not the case. There are plenty of things the mechanics allow that are not allowed by the devs. Just go look in the Announcements sub-forum for a list of them!


Building on what Landor posted earlier, the exact statement on Luring NPCs is this:

"Not allowed to lure the npc's long distances and use them from there [sic] original location"

I personally take this to mean that luring guards outside of town for the purpose of making them to attack ("using them") people destroying your towers is an exploit. If an enemy prepares and brings the numbers and the means to destroy your towers, it should be on YOU to be prepared to defend them. If you can't defend your own towers by your own power then you don't deserve to have them.
 

Strilan

Exalted Member
Man, people can complain about people ninja-ing towers... But the fact is, it's a strategy that some people use in order to do shit with little to no repercussions form the enemy guild. It's retarded, but a perfectly viable tactic.

Can't complain a group for using the best possible tactic to effectively destroy an enemy's assets.
 

RhodriTaliesin

Cronite Supporter
Yes, guards should be able to help defend TC towers, it promotes proper use of war declaration mechanics while simultaneously discouraging the random attack of these towers.
 
Yes, guards should be able to help defend TC towers, it promotes proper use of war declaration mechanics while simultaneously discouraging the random attack of these towers.
That's simply not true as the current guard system in place is too overpowered for it not to be an exploit.

I will use the situation in Mok-ki as an example. There is a tower that is built about 10 feet from the main entrance to the town. Any players that hit the tower are automatically targeted by the 10+ elite guards that are near the entrance. Meaning that even if IX or any other guild brought out 30 or more players they could not take down the tower. In addition to this the defending guild is using untagged blue players to block the towers hitbox so it cannot take damage from attackers or simply jumping in front of the war decced players to make them go grey.

Even if a mangannon was used it would still be within guard distance and the problem would persist, which makes this a clear exploit and the tower is virtually indestructable.

Its among the lowest forms of exploiting I have ever seen.
 

Incarnadine

Well-Known Member
For anyone forgetting...

War-dec targets can FREELY hit enemy towers without going grey. On that note tho, I personally feel having towers in guard protection is as silly as the ability and frequency of ninja'ing towers.
 

Evrelon

Senior Member
Yes, guards should be able to help defend TC towers, it promotes proper use of war declaration mechanics while simultaneously discouraging the random attack of these towers.
Yes that sounds good until the blue blockers come out to make you grey. Oh and when the owner is to scared to fight you they black list you so you cannot attack said tower. Its a cowardly way out for people that are afraid to defend their property themselves. If your not good at pvp dont piss everyone off and act like your tough and some sort of pro clan. Territory should have to be protected by the owners through fighting, money or diplomacy not a guard zone that can be abused.
 
I've never seen guards moving back to their location ever.
I have watched guards walk back into BakTi. Most of the time though they just insta-pop back if they have wandered too far off. ( It could be working differently in other towns )

I would agree with this if it was possible to actually kill all of the guards. As it is now you take a murdercount for each one and they will respawn endlessly. It's ridiculous.
The respawn on guards who have been killed is not instant. BakTi has been mowed down a number of times, after some of the guards were killed. Iv'e spent A LOT of time just standing in BakTi & there have been times there seemed to be only a couple of guards in/around town.

I do agree though. I think it is unfair that any TC tower can be placed within' aggro range of guards.
 

Evrelon

Senior Member
Killing the guards isnt a fair solution as they give out murdercounts. Why should you have to be a murderer to wage war. Not only that but guards are far tougher than players it isnt fun to have to fight guards and a zerg. If the game isnt fun people wont play it.
 
dont take out the silly "have a wardec" arguments, its not like blue blocking have never been done before in MO...
 

Resin

Well-Known Member
I think that the same rules need to apply to both guards and priests. The way to deals with blue blockers in the past has been to kite off the priest, so that once killed the blue blockers stay dead for a bit. This has now been labeled an exploit and yet kiting the guards is not. Consistency is all I ask.
 

Turkis

"The Biggest Catch" Champion
I think those are two different issues Resin. To function guards have to be kiteable. Otherwise they'd just stand still and shoot at you like a turret. However, they probably should return to their posts a little sooner than they currently do.

Blacklisting isn't suppose to work for towers not connected to a keep. So, if a tower is blacklisting you when it's not connected, this is a bug.

Really though, this issue is more of a problem with blue blocking than tower placement. This would be really easily fixable if attacking a tower became just like mining a rock. If instead of swinging at them, we hit R, there would be no blue blocking possible. Beyond making blue blocking a tower being hit a temporary bannable offence, hard to imagine another way to fix this imo.


Another thing that would make sense though would be if you were at war with a guild that owned a town, the guards in that town shouldn't give you murdercounts. Those guards become an extention of the guild at that point.
 

Resin

Well-Known Member
meh, yeah, you're right.
I think those would be better solutions as well.
 

Landor

Well-Known Member
A few things that make sense though would be if you were at war with a guild that owned a town, the guards in that town shouldn't give you murdercounts. Those guards become an extention of the guild at that point.
To add to that, guards shouldn't attack people attacking a tower if the guild who owns that tower, does not own the town.

But if the guild owns the town, the guards would help to defend the tower.
 
Thread starter #39

Mauzi

Status King
To add to that, guards shouldn't attack people attacking a tower if the guild who owns that tower, does not own the town.

But if the guild owns the town, the guards would help to defend the tower.
This is sort of contradictive since we're talking about TC towers near the town guards. Such tower would normally lead to the town to be controlled. Unless the chain is broken, which could add a nice bit of strategic planning.
 

Turkis

"The Biggest Catch" Champion
That doesn't really fit with current mechanics as you turn grey for attacking a TC control tower. You'd have to introduce a whole new flag, or change the way things work to change that. Seems wildly complex there Landor.

The guards help right now for two reasons. The first is if you're grey, but this is fixed by wardeccing the guild and makes sense. The second is from blue blockers, and this has nothing to do with the tower really.
 
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