The Conflux and explanations of the gameworld we see.

Thread starter #1
So we know that at some point in the recent past an event referred to as the conflux occurred. I haven't been able to find any details as to what this actually was although it appears to have been some sort of cataclysmic event.

So as I like my game world to make as much sense as possible I started thinking about what sort of event could transform a relatively realistic world (in terms of size and mechanics) into the world we now see in game. So could it be that the conflux did the following.

Shrunken world: The original continent was much larger than the one we now see in game. The Conflux essentially took large sections of that continent away smashing together what were previously much more distant sections into the dense hodge podge we now see ingame. This would explain the widely differing climatic and social structures and environments we now see in very close proximity to each other. These could never have evolved naturally like this so a sudden event must have occurred to bring them together in this way.

Massive loss of life/Depopulated world: An event as sudden and catastrophic as would be needed to create the shrunken world would no doubt cause massive death and destruction. Whole towns and villages would have been swallowed up and the resulting chaos and confusion would of lead to many many more deaths. This explains the lack of NPCs, small towns, villages and so on. Even the lack of creatures in the wilds as there populations are still recovering.

Chaos and disorder: It always bothers me when there are obvious signs of NPC civilisation and governments and yet no meaningful law beyond towns however after such a cataclysm it is understandable that the surviving centers of civilisation would hunker down and protect themselves leaving the now unfamiliar and more dangerous (due to previously distant threats now being almost on the door step) wilds more or less unpatrolled.

Death and the Etherworld: Now if we are going to try and justify the etherworld and the resurrection mechanic the events of the conflux may provide a handy avenue for this. Assuming the prior to the conflux death meant death because the Etherworld was much more distantly removed from the world of the living. Now the conflux occurs and not only causes the living world to shrink but also the distance (in a metaphysical sense) to the Etherworld to collapse. Suddenly the world of the living and the world of the dead are smashed right up against each other making it possible for priests to pull back a spirit from the other side in a way that was never previously possible. The ramifications of this would still be sinking in, it is also unclear where these priests have come from, what religion to they preach and did they only start appearing after the conflux. Also if we assume that the Etherworld is like a bridge or buffer to the true underworld then perhaps only those who suffer a violent death are able to remain there long enough to find a priest and be brought back (IE no immortality as death from old age or disease is still possible). The question still remains if anyone (NPCs included) can return from the etherworld in this way or if only a chosen few (mostly players) can do so.

What caused the conflux and what other effects it may have had are still open to debate and perhaps one day there will be ingame lore to be discovered about it :)

So those are my thoughts on the nature of the conflux and what it means or who it might be used to justify some of the game mechanics and realities we see in game. Probably should of posted this in Lore but as it is as much a dissussion of mechanics and the Lore forum is pretty quiet I figured I'd post here instead :p Mods feel free to move it if you think its better off there.
 
Conflux itself is "coming together" or "assembling". I've no idea what it means.

But I'm not sure it was a catastrophic event. I think perhaps it was the end of an era. It seems to be the time when the Tindremic empire became a shadow of its former glory.

We also know there are many continents outside of Myrland.
 

dscoombs

Well-Known Member
Yes but the original whateveritwascalled super clever, mage society to whom the Sidoians were a subject race, vanished when it sank beneath the waves. Which suggests some kind of physical calamity.
 
I was under the impression there was only 1 continent before the conflux. It was the conflux that originated the other continents. The waterfall at Meduli is said to be the breaking point of Myrland and another continent.
 
Talos

Talos

New Member
I think it would be great if we'd get more information about lore related stuff, but as interesting as it is, it was posted in wrong board section. So I moved it.
 
Yes but the original whateveritwascalled super clever, mage society to whom the Sidoians were a subject race, vanished when it sank beneath the waves. Which suggests some kind of physical calamity.

There is nothing solid to say it was or wasn't the conflux. The sinking of this race could be an isolated event. :confused:
 
About priests pulling spirits to resurrect.
Where do you think they get a body from to put the spirit in?
 
Thread starter #8
About priests pulling spirits to resurrect.
Where do you think they get a body from to put the spirit in?
Hmm well I assume the energy needed to create a fresh body must come from another dimension, possibly the Etherworld or another higher or lower level dimension.

This of course introduces a conservation of energy problem into the world as energy is effectively being created or poured in from another world. Unchecked this addition of mass to the world could have dire consequences as the gravity of the planet would be slightly increased with each resurrection. More immediately the total weight of the continent would be increasing and therefore presumably at some point it would start to sink into the ocean floor.

Of course it could be that the energy to create the new body is drawn from the earth which would solve these problems.

The other problem is the pattern however one would assume that your energy pattern is imprinted on your spirit and that is what is used to recreate you in the correct way.

Lastly we must assume that this ability the priests have to create matter from thin air to provide you with a new body is in some way dependant on there being a spirit to resurrect otherwise they would be able to produce as much material as they wished and thus become insanely rich. Another possibility is that they are simply semi divine beings who although capable of doing such a thing are bound by cosmic laws to only act as a gateway for the dead to return to life.

Ahh justifying gameplay mechanics in game lore... its such a tricky business :p
 

Rathius

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but the 'shrunken world' bit isn't correct. Mats has already stated on that topic, and it's certainly not a part of the Conflux. A Pangea Effect of sorts happened to this planet, much like our own, and a very long time ago.

And a lot of what you're trying to explain away is lack of content and things they haven't managed to get working or optimized yet. Like Tindrem which would have all the functioning laws and rules of society. And the rest of the patrolling npcs and guards to protect other areas. Traveling merchants, and much more. Also, not to mention, the conflux was a couple hundred years ago, things would have more than likely recovered by now.

If you look in my sig, you'll see a thread about the Conflux already and what we have gathered. About the only major changes was the possibility of a few meteorites showing up (the tephra rocks) and causing some changes, though even those could be much older. But the only notable change mentioned was that part of Tindrem sank into the ocean. Not other continents being moved, mashed up, or created.
 
Thread starter #10
Sorry, but the 'shrunken world' bit isn't correct. Mats has already stated on that topic, and it's certainly not a part of the Conflux. A Pangea Effect of sorts happened to this planet, much like our own, and a very long time ago.

And a lot of what you're trying to explain away is lack of content and things they haven't managed to get working or optimized yet. Like Tindrem which would have all the functioning laws and rules of society. And the rest of the patrolling npcs and guards to protect other areas. Traveling merchants, and much more. Also, not to mention, the conflux was a couple hundred years ago, things would have more than likely recovered by now.

If you look in my sig, you'll see a thread about the Conflux already and what we have gathered. About the only major changes was the possibility of a few meteorites showing up (the tephra rocks) and causing some changes, though even those could be much older. But the only notable change mentioned was that part of Tindrem sank into the ocean. Not other continents being moved, mashed up, or created.
OK well obviously I was simply trying to theorise based on the tiny amount of info that is officially available (I do not include any random comments that may be made by the devs in ancient 12 page threads or IRC or whatever).

The Shrunken world point was an attempt to justify why the world is a) Tiny and b) so diverse in terms of climate and social structure.

Now there is of course a level of acceptance in a game that world scale will be smaller than RL in the interests of gameplay but Mortal really takes that to quite an extreme. Justifying that extreme in the Lore would go a long way to improving the feel of the game for me. But perhaps others do not care about the world making any sort of logical sense.

Regarding what I am trying to "explain away". Well the problem is that content isn't there and may not be there for a long while yet. It NEEDS explaining in order for the world to make any sort of sense. The Lore needs to be written and made available in game. NPCs need to talk about the history of the world, the state of the empire and that sort of thing.

Too often game mechanics and Lore simply don't match up. The Etherworld is a classic example. It undeniably exists in game but there is no guidance as to what it is, who has access to the resurrection it provides, how long it has been like this, what impact it has on the way people live their lives.

Point is the world exists now as it is, my character exists now in this world and he(i) is trying to make sense of it. Saying oh thats coming later is getting pretty bloody old to be honest. The game has been out over a month and lore is an easy thing to write and make available, it can't introduce bugs or cause a server crash so there really is no excuse and if the lore doesn't explain why the world is in the state its in then it ain't doing it job.
 

Rathius

Well-Known Member
No, it wasn't obvious, especially when you're trying to reference and theorize on existing lore. If that really is your case, then I think your thread would honestly be better off in the Role Playing section than the lore section... If you're going to disregard the standing lore for your own experience.

I understand the need to have the world match the experience. I do not however think that they should be rewriting the lore just to fit how development is going.

Trying to justify a tiny world with a huge lore rewrite isn't very productive either. Why is the world so small? Maybe because the harbors are all shut down currently. We know other continents exist.

Why is the climate so diverse? It's not really that much of a stretch. It's like when people think that Hawaii never sees snow... when there exists snow in their very own mountains. Hell, look at California with it's mountains, beaches, snow, forests..

The NPCs to explain all this and the content for it is being worked on. What you're trying to say is it's just not there, or ever going to be. Or you're trying to say they need to work on something temporary for the things that are coming to do just what you're talking about.

I, and many others, realize full well the lore we've been given is short. We also know that the lore is there and just hasn't been translated or put into game yet. They're focusing on other aspects first. Yes, it sucks, but it does exist. Just not available to us yet.

The lore may be an 'easy thing to write' but not when it's interconnected with so many other mechanics, events, places, and objects of the world. Otherwise, just releasing lore fore lore's sake ends up with something akin to World of Warcraft, where it's just a story that has no real use or value to it. Just a hitch to get people from point A to point B and to slay some boss or collection 95 feathers...

And if you still have a problem with it, I have a thread for that too! Aptly titled "Lore Concerns" http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49188-lore-concerns.html
 

Shinzon

Honored Member
I am rather confused; before I lumped the conflux; the two meteorites, and the sinking of the ocean all into one; aka the Conflux, are you saying that instead Nave has suffered a series of "Disasters" all throughout it's history?

If that's the case, then it's certainly in line with Mats saying "Nave is the real world on crack" aka; Hyper evolution and the like.
 

dscoombs

Well-Known Member
Just a quick point about climactic differences within such a small landmass:

I live in England, we have more than one climate even within our country, let alone within the British Isles as a whole (a pretty tiny place ). In the South of the country there are vineyards. Try growing grapes up here in Yorkshire, you'll have a job, it's an entirely different climate. They're closer to each other climactically than areas separated by a hemisphere, but they're still very different. The landscape is also completely different. Different crops grow in the two places, and animals are farmed differently. Traditional building materials are likewise completely different. And even within each material: stone from the south looks totally different to Yorkshire stone.
 
Thread starter #15
No, it wasn't obvious, especially when you're trying to reference and theorize on existing lore. If that really is your case, then I think your thread would honestly be better off in the Role Playing section than the lore section... If you're going to disregard the standing lore for your own experience.[/url]
Disregard standing lore? What standing lore? What we have been given is woefully incomplete. Obviously anything I have written here is theory/suggestion because I am not a dev.



Why not, this would seem like a fantastic opportunity to not only make the world make more sense but also feel like it is developing. Take the position that the world is more or less fresh out of a major cataclysm and then as more content and system get added justify them with updates to the current state of the world. Tindrem is closed right not, that should be confirmed in the lore. NPCs should talk about it and when it opens its gates that should create a stir in the world.

Trying to justify a tiny world with a huge lore rewrite isn't very productive either. Why is the world so small? Maybe because the harbors are all shut down currently. We know other continents exist.

Why is the climate so diverse? It's not really that much of a stretch. It's like when people think that Hawaii never sees snow... when there exists snow in their very own mountains. Hell, look at California with it's mountains, beaches, snow, forests..

The NPCs to explain all this and the content for it is being worked on. What you're trying to say is it's just not there, or ever going to be. Or you're trying to say they need to work on something temporary for the things that are coming to do just what you're talking about.

I, and many others, realize full well the lore we've been given is short. We also know that the lore is there and just hasn't been translated or put into game yet. They're focusing on other aspects first. Yes, it sucks, but it does exist. Just not available to us yet.

The lore may be an 'easy thing to write' but not when it's interconnected with so many other mechanics, events, places, and objects of the world. Otherwise, just releasing lore fore lore's sake ends up with something akin to World of Warcraft, where it's just a story that has no real use or value to it. Just a hitch to get people from point A to point B and to slay some boss or collection 95 feathers...

And if you still have a problem with it, I have a thread for that too! Aptly titled "Lore Concerns" http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/49188-lore-concerns.html
I have posted before in your thread and I agree with you. This bit of fun theorising was just a fun attempt at filling in the blanks (and its a BIG blank). Stuff about the world size and climates does not need to be explained because people generally accept that game worlds are hugely compacted. But it would be nice none the less to do so.

Updates to the current state of the world (which is what adding content does) are a great time to add/change/update the lore on that area. It makes the world feel more alive as it happens and explaining why things are as they are now increases the immersion for players. I actually think this is a huge missed opportunity to breath some life into the world now and as things develop.

Boats and ships arn't available to us so make up a reason why, then have a lore event take place in the future when they get added.

And as far as the lore already existing it really doesn't make any difference if its not available to the player base.
 
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