Its the most bandaid fix there is (if implemented properly) to fix, in some degree the severe retention issues. But yes, this was probably going to be a good idea years ago, and not now when theres no player injection nor strategies to make it real.
If people didn't realized how broken the learning curve is and how the starter towns had' like a 1/100 retention rate its because they are imbeciles. The community has not only inherited the bandaid mentality from SV it has also inherited the delay (by years) to figure out pertinent dev agendas.
You have to give the community some credit tho, now at least they realize how "some" (and not so many) mechanics are broken, even tho it only took years of wasted opportunities such as sarducaa release or steam release.
But if that wannabe meme u made is intended to prove how much idiotic the community can be, you are definitely a great example.
The yellow flag should be a radius that covers an area around towns and whatever other meeting points might be on the island, at least some of the island needs to be a pvp zone otherwise new players will not be learning anything about the game. This island will be totally pointless if it only serves as some ineffective way to safely build up a stockhold for new players before coming to the main continent as they will probably try to move it all on a donkey to meduli then cry when a mounted kill them and they lost everything.
Speaking of building up materials how do you expect people to butcher/craft armor/weapons at this place?
Hopefully a new tutorial will explain to new players how they will be very ineffective in a fight and wasting their time if they put primary points into crafting/butchering or anything that isnt combat and not force them to skin/craft. Hopefully it will allow a player to pick a path like the current tutorial but actually teach them how to use it instead of just giving them the points/gear.
Also dont tell people to pick between morin khur and tindrem, how about bakti and tindrem instead?
I think SV is on the right path with giving all new players unlimited yellow flag while on the island, they will be able to watch and learn from the vets, and if they feel up to it then they can give up their yellow flag or duel with another player. Pretty sure by the time they leave the island, they know the mainland is going to eat them for breakfast anyway.
Sure, some vets are going to create new alts just to stockpile in safety and take it with them once they leave the island, but that’s the nature of sandbox games; you give players a tool, and they do with it as they please as long as they’re not violating the terms of service. I’d say just let them do it, it’s what makes sandbox games fun and long-lived.
As for butchery, they’ve already rendered it almost a non-profession now that so many basic lores and even the butchery skill itself have been made secondary. Practically everyone can process most creatures on the spot, unless they want the full yield from a butchery table.
"Q: Will there be a way to try PvP without dropping your yellow flag?"
"A: Yes, there will be the duel mechanic that we have today, and also an underground arena where everyone who enters will be grey flagged, and you can attack and get attacked by anyone without risking murdercounts."
* * *
"We feel that turning off the yellow flag will be a great way to let our current veteran player base to create new characters to also enjoy the Island, and play it side by side with our new players who can watch and learn from the veterans as they engage in PvP with each other."
There will be according to this 'only' three four kinds of PvP in Haven:
Turn off your yellow flag and have at each other. Implicit in what Herius said is the idea that Vets will be doing this with each other, and that newbies can learn from watching and /duelling or choosing to step into the Arena alongside them. Possibly some Vets will be deliberately training those who do, instead of simply proving to their own satisfaction that they are the toughest fifth-graders in the Kindergarten.
Being red on the island will be possible, but very harsh as you wont have access to your bank, you will be a true outlaw and will have to rely on other characters to bring gear outside of the town for you.
I think I've spotted the basic similarity: all of these are essentially consensual, given that going red doesn't 'just happen'.
Naturally, there are vets who don't like that idea. Given, overall, how few are now playing, those disgruntled with notions of Haven might well be a minority in the game as a whole, and will be among the first to leave the place when they grasp the concept that they can't just gank there.
I really don't see a problem with that. They have all of Myrland, and the rest of Nave and its thrones to trample under their sandaled feet.
This island will be totally pointless if it only serves as some ineffective way to safely build up a stockhold for new players before coming to the main continent as they will probably try to move it all on a donkey to meduli then cry when a mounted kill them and they lost everything.
Stop fantasising and think: What are the odds that at least one Vet who visits Haven won't warn them *not to do* any such foolish thing? Even if some of you who are reading this don't, some will. Some of them will even read what I just quoted.
New players may do this, but I doubt it. The rest of Nave is not old and boring to them, and even someone telling them that it gets that way won't make it so; only time could do that.
Vets? Vets who are not pleased to help and respectfully instruct the Newbs or content to fight with each other are probably gonna have a bad time in Haven.
It's a ... noobie island. It's not an Old Folks' Home.
If it doesn't suit you the first time, I don't see why you'd go back-- you'd have better luck with waiting outside of Meduli for some newb who didn't listen e.g. when told not to try to move all his kindergarten stuff to Meduli on a Donkey, if that was your favourite sort of so-called "PvP; or, if you wanted to roam the larger world looking for other Vets; or, spend your time crafting only the Good Stuff; or, actively disliked meeting (and pre-recruiting) new players.
Granted that it's going to have some things that make some Vets nostalgic, it doesn't sound like there will be enough of that to sustain long-term crowds of DeadHeads, or whatever fans of the Mortal Online of Old call themselves.
Note: As Henrik said, it's quite large, but not as large as Myrland; plus, if it gets flooded with population, they can make another Haven, or several. Who knows if you'll be able to pick which one to go to, if there are multiples? Better ask @Herius about that kind of parameter *now*, before anything's set in stone-- if it isn't already.
Tehmudjin makes crafting in Haven sound like more fun than I was thinking it would be-- and poses a good question. Crafters there will have limited supplies, and limited kinds of skills, and yet no interruptions (presumably). As long as they can stand to stay, and if there's a continuing demand for what they produce aside from goods for their own transfer and use, the newbie island could be gratifying (people who want to craft and who enjoy it are a minority; maybe they'll be in great demand-- that's very motivating, as is relative safety) or boring, claustrophobic & confining (and there could be an oversupply of crafters -vs- demand).
Newbie island could be aswell a barren place with no safe banks and a bunch of pigs and greywood trees all over the place, that seems to be sufficient to SV's (and some players) proposal regarding this place. Because, why not copypaste tindrem gardens tutorial.
The design of the newbie island should merely consist on introducing the game in the best possible way to new players yet not to plan for newbies to have a life and gather all day long. That would defeat the purpose of towns, and town brokers and the minimal economic activity among other things.
Most are overlooking what an introduction to the game should be and y'all start thinking how you or someone' else might exploit the island and build TC assets on top and shit like that and you are not wrong, SV has proven to be negligent concerning those kind of things and specially negligent to the most meaningfull mechanics design.
Everyone worried about flag status, then ask yourself what is the purpose of this place. Can't really overthink that shit, its quite simple, as the flagging system, obviously many things wont work for newbies so it has to be certain exception to the rules in such place.
But again, the real problematics are other ones.
One of the greatest concept flaws in MO is that theres safe banks, that cripples the economy in all possible way, its the most broken and unbalanced feature atm. Of course, hoarders that been doing it for years won't agree yet the game would be in a much better state if banks were siegeable assets.
If* some degree of safety was really required to ensure certain stability/progression the town banks should be used to safely store a very limited amount of slots.
But hey, thats the issue. In MO the game progression doesn't really involve information about the game nor character skills progression, the only real 2 types of progression are TC assets building and material storage in safe banks. Which, as stated before cripples the economy badly.
The only moment the information becomes progression is when starting the game, but it doesn't take much to understand mechanics afterwards except for certain crafting classes that doesn't have very intuitive design and require massive amounts of materials to actually figure it out, but nothing that haven't been uncovered by now, at least by most players.
MO's whole pve and crafting concept is designed to be such a ghetto arse time sink its not even funny. Progression should be about something else, about the ability to control pve spots, for players to control cities and exercise political* activities contemplated by the game design, etc.
SV has tried to introduce depth into the game by adding "difficult access" to certain places, which promotes group playing but at the end, on how content is designed and introduced it doesn't take much time until its exhausted. Another degree of "difficulty" or progression is the material hoarding.
Im not implying that progression shouldn't involve material hoarding, but it definitely shouldn't be such a priority. Exploration should be valued in this sense. But the goal is to generate some sort of organic progression with and in relation of one of the greatest assets in the game, the player's ability to exercise meaningfull* political "activities".
Why keep orbiting around the same old broken and uneffective mechanics that have no depth and promote zergs and grind time instead of discussing why and how those mechanics don't work.
Molarium steel fighters hornscale hybrids ecumenical only mages step horse messing mounted no TC small map probably no pets fresh start for all. If that does not get you excited for pvp keep your necro pet bullhorse ridding ass on the mainland.
I don't think they understand that this Island already looks to be a far better experience for vets and noobs for so many reasons.
They will figure it out when the Island has 3x the population of the mainland and start adding stuff like housing.
(In those old and even older days when fights sprang up around Bak-ti, my three avatars were either living there or often doing daily business there regardless of when or how fights broke out, but I know what you mean.)
For as long as MO1 lasts-- with its more-than-one-character slots per account-- then you're right: people will go log-in there on alts to look for fights (and then complain that everyone's ducking them, hiding out in the rest of Nave). That could be quite a while, as Seb has outlined. In the distant (and still hypothetical) days when alts go away for good, I'm sure the community will adapt once more.
But people who just want The PvP As It Goes In Haven won't have any pressing claims to 'need' houses, either.