What Did Mortal Online Do Right and Wrong?

its not hurting the economy? with max 20 slots to sell wich economy? they should stack it up to 1000 per account than we would have an economy.

wich economy? do you living under a rock? nearly everytime you need something you dont get it because there a to less people. everyone should have the option to be self sufficent if he choooses to. wich economy xD there is no economy in mortal open your eyes man
thats because theres like 50 left playing, ofc there cant be an economy like that. But even then I have no prob gearing up a fighter or hybrid from tindrem broker.

Its obvious being self sufficient isnt on Henriks design or he wouldnt make MO2 1 char only. Sorry this isnt Darkfall
 
Thread starter #22
likes - no marketing... I'm joking, this is their biggest mistake
I only learned about MO2 because I was looking through games I owned on Steam and it was in the recent announcements when I clicked on MO. I think right now they may want to avoid marketing but once they have more they really should market it this time.
 
When it had a playable pop, mo dunked any other game I've played at giving thrilling moments. Where loot is on the line, its v someone you trash talked, etc, in a unforseen situation.
The possible scenarios in mo are endless. My best fights are ones I didnt plan.

Also mo has the best crafting system in any game I've played. Although theres generic meta weapons theres a lot of different viable recipes and niche things you can make. And being able to mix and match different armor parts and materials is sick.

What MO did wrong is the balance and reasons to fight. TC was op and prevented engagements. And mounted is boring and gearbased and prevented most people from roaming foot. Making most engagements outside boring v mounted. Making people go out less. Repeat. Lower pop. We needed more good things to fight over.

Also the game managed to be the ultimate time sink. Needing to relog, walk to benches, etc just pissed infinite time making the fun to doing nothing ratio way too high. Luckily when it was fun mo was the best.
 

Speznat

Senior Member
That relogging to use my wepaon crafter and armor crafter or my tamer is jsut shit. Just give my one char all these options and just give me 1 char only. its a so unessary time sink its so fuckign annoying as hell. I only use the 3 other charackter to gear my one char, thier only existance is to serve my main as slaves. other option would be give them all fighting skills aswell than they are not completly useless outside of tindrem.

just the waste of time for stuff that could be made more enjoyable just by chanign the fucking system on the base not the fucking syndrom of a broken system.

I cant only say:
Tarkov is hardcore, and nothign feels like time waste or pointless time sink. it feels fair evne if you lost 100times.

in mortal it just feel everytime when you waste time for nothing it feel unfair and unessary time waste because mechanics ar enot thought to an end.

Henrik please make in MO2 not the same mistakes.
 
That relogging to use my wepaon crafter and armor crafter or my tamer is jsut shit. Just give my one char all these options and just give me 1 char only. its a so unessary time sink its so fuckign annoying as hell. I only use the 3 other charackter to gear my one char, thier only existance is to serve my main as slaves. other option would be give them all fighting skills aswell than they are not completly useless outside of tindrem.

just the waste of time for stuff that could be made more enjoyable just by chanign the fucking system on the base not the fucking syndrom of a broken system.

I cant only say:
Tarkov is hardcore, and nothign feels like time waste or pointless time sink. it feels fair evne if you lost 100times.

in mortal it just feel everytime when you waste time for nothing it feel unfair and unessary time waste because mechanics ar enot thought to an end.

Henrik please make in MO2 not the same mistakes.
Imagine how cool it would be if you can duel or hunt instead waiting for extraction to be finished.
 

Najwalaylah

Exalted Member
Imagine how cool it would be if you can duel or hunt instead waiting for extraction to be finished.
You are not supposed to hunt while you are busy with production work; you are supposed to be hunted.
 

Hayasa

Honored Member
I only learned about MO2 because I was looking through games I owned on Steam and it was in the recent announcements when I clicked on MO. I think right now they may want to avoid marketing but once they have more they really should market it this time.
yeah they wanted to avoid marketing since the launch of this game... yup... avoid avoid avoid
 
Haven't played in a couple of years ...

Loved:

PVP
The world felt realistic in a way.
Getting lost in the Jungle.
Gathering and Crafting mechanics are great.
Skill system was great, I do agree some gathering skills should not use up some skill points, I think I had about 12 or so different characters.
Combat system was great be it a little rough around the edges.
Lack of in game maps and hand holding I enjoyed. (tho majority of today's gamer need this type of stuff at the start at leased)

Dislikes
TC system had huge issues and it was a massive drain on the few who managed them.

I think buildings need some sort of 'reinforce timer' like in EVE if you want to attract a new audience, not all buildings but the key ones like keeps.
Guards need a rework, but finding that sort of balance is tough and you can't please everyone..
The MC system didn't stop players from killing anyone and everyone.

Games needs to be tested, and have vigorous bug fixing in place, exploding ponies can't happen again :D

Lack of PVE exploration.

Improvements

Guilds controlling towns need more dynamic options, so you feel like a feudal lord ruling over a guild and 'peasants' (if the game got a decent size population) be it adding buildings to a town, like training stands, a library with hand written guides for crafting this sort of stuff to help new players. Taxation, tributes that sort of stuff and if your a bad overlord then your 'peasants' can reject you, a bit of interaction.

Players should be able to decide to bind a character to a town and this add you to that towns 'militia, forming a social environment' for players who aren't in guilds and an asset for the guild who owns the area.

Trading needs a huge overhaul the auction house and stuff is very basic.

If the game is going to truly flourish and grow then the griefing mechanics need to be overhauled with more risk (could tie in to a militia/residency system).

You just need to give the players the tools to turn the world into a living world, that has real consequences and not the tools to make everyone quit I suppose.. It is hard to do this as the majority will have multi accounts, you want a balance of PVP and PVE.

If your account is fixed to one toon per account that might help a bit, I certainly wouldn't pay for 12 individual accounts a month that is for sure :p
 
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Guilds controlling towns need more dynamic options, so you feel like a feudal lord ruling over a guild and 'peasants' (if the game got a decent size population) be it adding buildings to a town, like training stands, a library with hand written guides for crafting this sort of stuff to help new players. Taxation, tributes that sort of stuff and if your a bad overlord then your 'peasants' can reject you, a bit of interaction.

Players should be able to decide to bind a character to a town and this add you to that towns 'militia, forming a social environment' for players who aren't in guilds and an asset for the guild who owns the area.
I really like the idea of players being bound to cities and areas more than to guild and someone who try to rule the area would need to organize locals instead chasing them away.
 
Pros:
- Clearly provides a niche-interest in a dark, low-fantasy grim-medieval world that others games rarely do. But of all types of games, a hardcore sandbox MMO with full-loot.
- Has a solid, simple yet difficult to master combat system. (Touch back on this in the cons).
- The sound track is nostalgic.
- The game introduced you to new friends and enemies, and you either built super strong bonds with them or bitter hatreds for them. No other game does that.
- First person.
- VOIP. (That was introduced later in MO's life, but probably one of the best additions that comes to mind for sure.)
- Tutorial Island. (Was desperately needed a -lot sooner-, but it serves as a good ground work and could still use plenty of improvements and information. MO is very hard to explain to a new player.)
- The lore that exists (and what isn't barred by language) is interesting and unique. But clearly takes inspiration from a lot of real life sources.

Cons:
- Gameplay over the years has been extremely trivialized through quote-on-quote 'balance changes' that usually have hurt the game more than improved it. For example. Mount breeding, the use of pets either through dominating, necromancy, etc.
- Being restricted to four character slots. You couldn't be self sufficient unless some of your characters were gimped in their crafting. For example. If you wanted to play a foot fighter. You'd need armor, weapons, and food. That's three characters you need to fill your remaining three slots to be 'self-sufficient' - but even then, you couldn't wholly be so as you'd need someone to process the ores you mine for the metals you get. Want to use animal materials at all? You also need a butcher. You can see where I'm going with this. (So either the con is character limit, or skill disposition. Either have combat and crafting points, or we should of had more slots.)

- Prediction. If you've avoided PvP in the game, there is a mechanic called 'prediction' which exists due to the lag almost all players experience across the board. The way the netcode works in Mortal Online (from a players perspective) is that the game will try to predict your next set of actions as soon as it possibly can. Making it extremely abusable by making quick, twitchy movements which tricks the game in showing other players on their client that you're going X direction whilst you're actually going Y direction. The best solution? Give the US it's own server. Give the Europeans their own server. Should any other geographic location show HIGH DEMAND, give them their own server. I adore the idea of everyone being on one server - but we aren't technically capable yet to have everyone play on the same server -and- have it be fair.

- 'Skill-based combat' may of been a term used a long time ago. But it's been dead and untrue for a long time. With the use of necromancy pets, near unkillable mounteds who are in some of the best gear one can make, AI that fights for you (Pets or even guards that can be placed on TC.) The list goes on. As well as the section on prediction. The game isn't skill based. In a perfect world where balance was good, and no one lagged; then sure I'd called the combat skill-based. But as it stands - this game mainly has a zerg & gear mentality of 'winning' than trying to provide skillful & fun experiences.

- Crafting has so many avenues, yet very little practical uses. Take a look at armor crafting and weapon crafting. We're given so many materials, so many options, etc. Yet players only utilize a small percentage of what is available as the rest is worse in comparison to the rest - or because it is completely useless. Having 2000+ options in crafting does -not- make it a good crafting system if people are only using 6 of the options.

- AI is completely brain dead in MO. From the Springbok, all the way up to the Kimiru. Basically how the AI works in Mortal Online is this. The more 'difficult' the mob is, the more HP it has and the harder it hits; with sometimes a variation of magic that has a 'unique effect' attached to it. In laymen terms. Almost all mobs function the same except in size and skin (sometimes this isn't even different!) Not to mention the consistent bugging out of mobs as they either fall through the map, go through walls, turn invisible, etc.

- The guild system is very out dated and weak. Forced war declarations were about the only positive with the guild system - but now with them gone, it's pretty terrible. No ability to re-name the ranks, or even display your rank publicly to other players. The joining / leaving options are outdated. There just isn't a lot of functionality or customization available to players with guilds. No guild tabards, or capes. No extensive tags. We got the alliance system in recent years, but even it has issues. If you want your game to be focused around the community and players - this should be an important part to focus on. Guilds are what kept Mortal Online alive for so long. Nothing else.

- Territory Control is abysmal. Even if we as the players blame one another for abusing it, it ultimately comes down to Star Vault for implementing it poorly. No one in their right mind truly adores the ideas of TC in it's entirety. Before the recent (and oh so needed patches) of TC control being removed from certain zones. Guilds could simply lock down locations and prevent others from using them. On paper, sandbox agrees with this; however I think where the idea of sandbox is gutted is the fact players can use AI / NPC Guards to defend their player built structures. Blocking and controlling zones wouldn't be so bad -IF- it was players who had to defend it and not buggy AI. Also TC tower placement is awful. The fact players had to bug out their characters via ghost mode, magic, etc. to place them in unreachable spots is just broken. TC towers should have MORE reasonable placements - and they should have WAY more HP, but of course more cost to build and maintain. Many players put TC towers in unreachable places due to their piss-poor HP. All and all, territory control would be -GOOD- if you could CONTROL the actual territory you were in. Maybe tax mob drops, control the flagging of players, build things like the stations and NPC's but put a tax on them that players would have to pay to use them. Territory Control in its current state is a glorified metaphorical barrier which keeps long-time playing players in power and prevents anyone else from harming them long term.

- Sieging is awful for several reasons. It's time consuming (in a bad way), un-engaging, and thoroughly boring and even annoying to do. Sieging should be fun in a game play sense for both sides. Currently how sieging works is the defending side utilizes AI via 'guards', putting pets on people and leashing them back to heal them, and standing atop a structure to 'peak' and shoot a fire arrow down. From the attackers perspective. You have to run boulders either from a 'boulder house' which is a house purposefully built for the use of storing boulders, store them on characters (like most did in the past before the new housing system) where each character was limited to a certain amount, or the most annoying method; live running them from a keep. Are people shooting your manganon with fire arrows? Too bad. The best you can do is try to shoot back at them and use magic on them. Are people shooting your molvas which are holding and moving the boulders? Too bad. Just try and outheal the damage. Oh, a guard is attacking you, your manganon, or a pet of yours but it's behind a wall? Ah. Seems you're screwed. Anyone who has planned sieging, handled any sieging logistics, etc. They will know deep down sieging isn't fun to the point people came out with methods such as 'ninja sieging' which is a concept to avoid any resistance at all. How stupid is that? Players basically have to -PLAN- their sieges in an effort to avoid any interaction from the other side due to how tedious and boring it can become. Sieging needs to be more interactive, and not so one-sided.

- Bugs, exploits, and cheating have always been extremely apparent. Either from in-game knowledge or external sources. This is by far one of the biggest pitfalls of Mortal Online.


Could go on but, like most people might say.. I'm beating a dead horse. A lot of this stuff has been said over, and over, and over, and over.. hundreds of times, in a hundred different manners.
 

a.out

Senior Member
The good:
1st person
Combat
Concept of Crafting
Mounts/Taming (when it comes to mounts - offensive pets need some skill based involvement)
Open peeveepee
The bad:
How everything was implemented, maintained and build upon.

Take crafting for example - instead of going all the way and let us craft all the things like saddles, horse shoes, bags, catapults, etc etc we got one half finished new big thing after another .... sarducca - WHY???;free form tc and walls; new pets; ...

They never once tried to actually finish the game in any given state.

Resource distribution is absolutely nonsensical as well ... all the good stuff in one tiny corner. Who designs a map like this ? Also, 95% of mats are just not usable thanks to aforementioned unfinished alpha state of crafting.



.. honestly, if I see a 150 bucks price tag on the one possible donation package, I'm not exactly getting a vibe of competence for MO2 either. Stinks like yet another bad decision.
 
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The Good:
- 1 World and Server - This was a real important aspect to the appeal of MO for me, it made it so you can actually have a meaningful reputation which can be built up or ruined. Player reputation mattered and would follow you around. It adds a larger sense of community and a greater sense of conflict than any other online game I've played. It makes a traders role have more depth, gives wars more meaning, it benefits every aspect of the game in my opinion..outside of course of it forcing me, living in California, to be stuck with fair enough ping to play but bad enough to be at a disadvantage against those in EU as well as those warping around because of really high ping, but I'll gladly deal with that to live in 1 world with everyone else.

- Full Loot and open PVP - The sense of fear and the unknown out in the world alone because of the inherent danger looming from everyone else also made MO unique, and more and more so as time goes on where we see other games in development that claim they'll do it always back track and change it later. There's something great about knowing you can not only always be the victim, but you can also get revenge, play out grudges, be opportunistic without too much intervention from game mechanics. Anything could happen at any time, that's great in my opinion.

- Mysteries - MO was also so unique and really amazing in the way that so many of the systems in the game had to be figured out, and how the community together, or even sometimes on your own were able to dig into those systems to figure out how they work. Mysteries are great for games. The only problem tho is that I realize they take a lot of work to create, and once MO had put all the ones in that they had planned before launch, nothing we got later had any comparable type of depth, which was sad. but there was nothing like figuring out how the extraction system worked in beta, and then much later doing the same with alchemy, it was rewarding in a way I've never felt with any other game.

- Forgotten Plans - MO was supposed to be an even deeper and broader game than we ever got. I don't know if they're still available somewhere, but some of the plans they had initially were really great but were never realized...maybe that should go in a "Bad" category, but because those ideas have already been designed, it means they still exist in some form and could be added to MO2 finally, which would be another opportunity for them to properly realize their vision they had some 15 years ago.

The Bad:

- Bad design after initial launch - So many bad and unhealthy systems were put into the game hoping to flesh it out and add more things for people to do that brought with them terribly long lasting negative effects that have persisted and changed the world to this day. This one alone could have any number of things listed under it (breeding, walled off safe farming etc) but for me it basically encompasses everything we were able to use to accumulate and generate mass wealth in the game that had little to no risk attached to its generation either because of a "creative use of game mechanics", or just completely short sighted design. So many systems were added without SV realizing how they could be exploited to the maximum degree, or what they would lead to down the line. And you can't fault the player for taking advantage of the stuff while it's in game, and SV couldn't just take the wealth or Nascar tank mounts back after the damage was done because people would rage quit etc. So it just happened again and again and it led to massive gold generation and inflation that could never be fixed.

Kind of related: Vendors should never buy all your junk for tons of coins, if it doesn't have a use in the world, why would the vendor want to buy it from you? And if it's useful a player would pay more than the vendor obviously. This time around if they could be more mindful of the rate and frequency wealth can be created via shallow risk-less things that'd be better.

- Magery - I never felt the magic system was fun, and it was very clunky feeling, and useless on it's own for regular animal farming for the most part. Plenty of other games based on this old UO design made much better use of magic, and I don't feel like MO ever got it right. The mechanics of combat mode, fists up, slow walk unless sprinting, stop and charge, line up reticule, spell button again to cast...so clunky for no apparent reason. They should have aimed to make all combat and movement buttery smooth. Even if they weren't capable of it at launch there's no reason that over 10 years they couldn't have re-iterated on it and made it all better, if only marginally..what we had to start was what we'll finish with mechanically and that's a shame because it could've been so much better.

The only magic school available to you as a beginner wasn't strong enough to go out and do fun beginner things like hunting monsters on foot efficiently. they never balanced spell cost and total mana and mana regen so it worked any better now than it did in the beginning...again where's the innovation during the life of the game?. Add to that in PvP you were mostly just a healbot and denied healing to the enemy, every so often you could pop the last guy standing who was running away..just not as fun for most people who'd like to blow stuff up I imagine.

Furthermore, if you were new and wanted to explore the other schools they eventually put in...good luck. While some of the ways they tried to make those things more of an achievement for veteran players made sense...you need to give new players a more easily attainable path to more diversity than this basic magic school that was so lackluster that the day you realized the limits of what you could do with it you'd want to drop it for something more useful or effective.. It's like if they started a fighter with only the ability to use a hand ax and if you wanted to use anything else you had to spend all kinds of time and money just to use another type of weapon in a way.

Any Player power related things they added which weren't based on skill should have never been put into the game, I still can't believe the necro pets they put in...like seriously...how do you not think that was a terrible idea? I admittedly haven't played much in the time since it became a thing...but did they ever try to reign that in when it was obviously unbalanced? It spits in the face of any "player skill matters" goals they ever claimed to have for the game.

It sucks seeing so many things that should have or could have been done better with MO, while still having experienced so much fun in this game overall...beta, launch and the first year or so were unparalleled for me personally. it's frustrating because you realize the potential they were playing with...and how a few changes or evolutions in what they started with could have changed the trajectory of the game for the better.

At the same time I realize that there's still that possibility that this chance to start over is a godsend. It can be a chance for them to rectify a lot of those things..but they really have to commit to it and not just re-skin this game in a more modern engine.
 

Speznat

Senior Member
magic is shit, they should make medival fantasy without magic, sry just my opinion. i hate magic.
a "kingdom come deliverance" would be great settign for mortal. keep it real with some fantasy monsters and no magic at all and no magic from enemies too.
 
magic is shit, they should make medival fantasy without magic, sry just my opinion. i hate magic.
a "kingdom come deliverance" would be great settign for mortal. keep it real with some fantasy monsters and no magic at all and no magic from enemies too.
No.

Does Magic this time around need to be implemented differently? Sure. Ecumenical was honestly fine on it's own, I honestly didn't even have a problem with Spiritism when it came out. But Necromancy and Elementalism are just busted play styles.

Ecumenical by far is still the most balanced magical school of incorporating different aspects of damage and healing.

Necromancy introduced more pets which even regular 'foot fighters' (Melee characters) can utilize. Which is just unbalanced. It also added things such as 'Death Hand' which is equivalent to a mage 'sticky backing' you (Hitting you in the back while you run) and it heals them. If you've got good enough tracking you basically can kill someone twenty times your worth in items.

Spiritism is now used to basically grief others, cheese dungeons, spawn inside of siege equipment to bug it out, or my favorite.... Place TC towers in unreachable spots. What a cool magic school!!

Elementalism has basically made sieges just more unfun and cancerous. I love seeing people roll giant boulders down the sides of buildings from the inside with no reprecussions into your siege equipment. Or casting Glacial Shard from the inside with no reprecussions.

But I have a feeling your point of not wanting magic is because you just don't like the idea of it at all. You should try out Gloria Victis in that case. It isn't first person, but it's exactly what you're asking for in your own words. Mortal Online should retain its grimdark low-fantasy world.
 

Bicorps

Trial Member
No.

Does Magic this time around need to be implemented differently? Sure. Ecumenical was honestly fine on it's own, I honestly didn't even have a problem with Spiritism when it came out. But Necromancy and Elementalism are just busted play styles.

Ecumenical by far is still the most balanced magical school of incorporating different aspects of damage and healing.

Necromancy introduced more pets which even regular 'foot fighters' (Melee characters) can utilize. Which is just unbalanced. It also added things such as 'Death Hand' which is equivalent to a mage 'sticky backing' you (Hitting you in the back while you run) and it heals them. If you've got good enough tracking you basically can kill someone twenty times your worth in items.

Spiritism is now used to basically grief others, cheese dungeons, spawn inside of siege equipment to bug it out, or my favorite.... Place TC towers in unreachable spots. What a cool magic school!!

Elementalism has basically made sieges just more unfun and cancerous. I love seeing people roll giant boulders down the sides of buildings from the inside with no reprecussions into your siege equipment. Or casting Glacial Shard from the inside with no reprecussions.

But I have a feeling your point of not wanting magic is because you just don't like the idea of it at all. You should try out Gloria Victis in that case. It isn't first person, but it's exactly what you're asking for in your own words. Mortal Online should retain its grimdark low-fantasy world.
I actually like Basic Magic too. Its kinda skill based. You have to aim... Make sure people run toward you when they need heal... Corrupt at the right time. Shit like that. I think some material should give magic resist tho, because a Psy build suck, it just doesn't work.
 

Floky

New Member
I just wish they had a system to view different bank contents without having to travel everywhere to see what you got but just look no withdraw. (YES I AM LAZY)
 
I actually like Basic Magic too. Its kinda skill based. You have to aim... Make sure people run toward you when they need heal... Corrupt at the right time. Shit like that. I think some material should give magic resist tho, because a Psy build suck, it just doesn't work.
The basic magic system was the balls, didn't need anything else doing to it tbh. Maybe if you want to go for a full on damage mage then you shouldn't be able to use healing and debuff spells ect.
 
I actually like Basic Magic too. Its kinda skill based. You have to aim... Make sure people run toward you when they need heal... Corrupt at the right time. Shit like that. I think some material should give magic resist tho, because a Psy build suck, it just doesn't work.
I think at some point they ninja changed it to make psy a constant reduction and not just rng but it needs a to make a bigger difference. And psy need to effect all magic styles
 
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